| Sidor om ämnet: < [1 2 3 4] > | Question to English native speakers Trådens avsändare: Izabela Szczypka
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| How do you expect me to spell your name if you pronounce it wrong!!!! | Sep 25, 2003 |
My husband (the Kachur part of my abominable surname) once went to pick up his boots from being resoled. The lady asked for his name, which he provided her with. Kachur (pronounced "catcher"). She looked and looked, but couldn't find his boots under that name. Finally she asked him to spell it. K-A-C-H-U-R, he said. Ach SOOOOO!!!! replied the lady. Kaccchhhhhoooor (imagine a prolonged ch like at the end of Loch Lomond). How ever do expect me to find your boots if you can't pronounce your name pr... See more My husband (the Kachur part of my abominable surname) once went to pick up his boots from being resoled. The lady asked for his name, which he provided her with. Kachur (pronounced "catcher"). She looked and looked, but couldn't find his boots under that name. Finally she asked him to spell it. K-A-C-H-U-R, he said. Ach SOOOOO!!!! replied the lady. Kaccchhhhhoooor (imagine a prolonged ch like at the end of Loch Lomond). How ever do expect me to find your boots if you can't pronounce your name properly!!!
Now try sticking my equally unfathomable "Riddell" in front of that impossible "Kacccccchhhhhhoooooor", and perhaps you'll understand the fun I get to have with my name almost every single day.
Frau Rye-dell-Kaccccchhhhhhoooooor
Frau Rieeddl-Kacccccchhhhhhoooooor
Frau wie sprechen Sie ihren Namen aus?
Alison
(Just call me the riddle catcher!)
[Edited at 2003-09-25 09:51] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Daniel Bird 
Storbritannien
Local time: 19:25
Tyska till Engelska
| He could change his name to Conrad... | Sep 25, 2003 |
...but with such a faint grasp of the ins and outs of language, could your would-be client ever pass as an Englishman/American anyway?
At the risk of politicising the whole thread, there are more difficult things to come to terms with as one of Her Britannic Majesty's subjects than the pronunciation of one's name.
| | | | | Aren't we being a bit over-critical here? | Sep 25, 2003 |
I don't know which countries the man in question was emigrating from and to, but certainly here in the UK everyone has an absolute right to change their name by deed poll - there was an article in the Observer recently about a man who officially changed his name to "Captain Beany" when he stood as a "fringe" candidate in a local election - and towards the end of his life my father-in-law added "Richard" to his first names by deed poll, just because he'd always liked the name.
I don't see ... See more I don't know which countries the man in question was emigrating from and to, but certainly here in the UK everyone has an absolute right to change their name by deed poll - there was an article in the Observer recently about a man who officially changed his name to "Captain Beany" when he stood as a "fringe" candidate in a local election - and towards the end of his life my father-in-law added "Richard" to his first names by deed poll, just because he'd always liked the name.
I don't see any reason to be "suspicious" of the guy for intending to change his name, for whatever reason, when he emigrated. As for the "certificate", maybe he just wanted a letter he could show people to explain why he'd had his name changed - perhaps he found that easier than having to explain it orally. Certainly a translator can't issue any form of oficial certificate, but if you just look on it as a letter, why not give it to him? ▲ Collapse
| | | | DGK T-I
Storbritannien
Local time: 19:25
Georgiska till Engelska
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| If the client really wants to change his name | Sep 25, 2003 |
and is emigrating, he may find it easier to do after he has started living in that country (depending on where it is). For instance, in the UK (certainly England & Wales, anyway) a person living in the UK can legally call themselves what they like (as long as they provide any previous names they have been known by, when that would be relevant) - no one there would need to gain special permission to change the name that they use (a simple legal document can be drawn up, if wanted). The only legal... See more and is emigrating, he may find it easier to do after he has started living in that country (depending on where it is). For instance, in the UK (certainly England & Wales, anyway) a person living in the UK can legally call themselves what they like (as long as they provide any previous names they have been known by, when that would be relevant) - no one there would need to gain special permission to change the name that they use (a simple legal document can be drawn up, if wanted). The only legal exception is apparently first/christian names given in a Church of England baptism, which theoretically there is no legal way of changing (although as far as I am aware this rule has no practical effect).
Of course, it depends where your client is emigrating to - and some of us like to keep our names, despite other people thinking (at first) that they are a little difficult to pronounce -a little explaination usually solves the problem
[Edited at 2003-09-25 13:28] ▲ Collapse
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Anthony Green
Italien
Local time: 20:25
Italienska till Engelska
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| Not recognising your own name | Sep 25, 2003 |
A French friend of mine was at an American airport when he heard a call over the loudspeakers for a person with a very funny-sounding name. He was most amused to hear that someone should be walking around with a name like "Whyvers Lautschi". A couple of minutes later he jumped to his feet and ran for the plane, as he realised to his shock that they were reading his name...
Can you guess what his real name was?
| | | | | what's in a name | Sep 25, 2003 |
Allison your stories are very funny, I enjoyed them. Thanks!
We have experienced some of that ourselves.
My husband's name is Wilfried, which presents quite a problem for many telemarketing and junk mail addressing "professionals" here in the States.
We have received any number of mutations, but the funniest one yet was when I answered the phone one day and a gentleman very politely asked to speak to Mr. Wildfire Kantus.
Well, all the letters were there, just in a diffe... See more Allison your stories are very funny, I enjoyed them. Thanks!
We have experienced some of that ourselves.
My husband's name is Wilfried, which presents quite a problem for many telemarketing and junk mail addressing "professionals" here in the States.
We have received any number of mutations, but the funniest one yet was when I answered the phone one day and a gentleman very politely asked to speak to Mr. Wildfire Kantus.
Well, all the letters were there, just in a different order! We actually kind of liked that one, and it has stuck as a nickname that we use once in a while.
But joking aside, I don't see why a translator who is versed in the respective languages or cultures should not be asked to provide an opinion on the ease of pronouncing a particular name. However, it really wouldn't represent anything more than an opinion, and would likely requrie some further information to be considered along the lines of an "expert" opinion. I would suppose that such an opinion might be used by someone officially vested with the authority to render a judgment on the point.
I have no idea how easy it would be to change your name in the U.S., and of course we don't know the intended destination country of the gentlemen in question. But the suggestion someone made to check into that possibility first is definitely a good one, in my opinin.
The desire for a name change can be motivated by any number of reasons, some of which might well be suspicious. However, I believe it is generally the best idea to follow your own instincts, which you appear to have done in this case. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Yves Lauche? | Sep 25, 2003 |
Anthony Green wrote:
... with a name like "Whyvers Lautschi"....
Can you guess what his real name was?
My wild guess would be Yves Lauche; or Something Yvers, and they read the last name first?
[Edited at 2003-09-25 14:24]
| | | | Izabela Szczypka
Spanien
Local time: 20:25
Engelska till Polska
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TOPIC STARTER | Thanks, everybody | Sep 25, 2003 |
I have been following the discussion carefully, enjoying both the funny stories and serious remarks. Please, continue!
I am especially thankful to Beth for saying that eventually one should follow the instincts - there is moral support in it. Still, I feel some points should be made or added:
1) Further legal consultation shows that my certificate would legally be an expression of a private opinion, perhaps supported to some extent by my qualifications, but still not carrying any bin... See more I have been following the discussion carefully, enjoying both the funny stories and serious remarks. Please, continue!
I am especially thankful to Beth for saying that eventually one should follow the instincts - there is moral support in it. Still, I feel some points should be made or added:
1) Further legal consultation shows that my certificate would legally be an expression of a private opinion, perhaps supported to some extent by my qualifications, but still not carrying any binding force.
2) In that particular case and on the basis of your opinions, the only statement I could make would be that the surname might pose some difficulty in pronouncing but not to the point of making a name-change necessary (definitely not a tongue-twister like my own one ). Such a statement would be pointless to make.
3) In Poland - as far as I know - a name change requires a court procedure unless the name is obviously offensive or discriminatory, which is not the case here, while elsewhere - as you say - it is a simple procedure. If I'd known it's so simple, I could have advised my client simply to wait.
4) I've just checked the format of my own Polish passport. It gives the current surname only, no maiden or formerly used surnames. So - theoretically - you could change the surname in your Polish passport from Bin Laden to Kowalski (the former one has become discriminatory, hasn't it?) and say 'Hallo!'to all immigration officers in the world.
5) I still feel uneasy ▲ Collapse
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RHELLER
USA
Local time: 12:25
Franska till Engelska
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| could just change spelling | Sep 25, 2003 |
Dear Colleagues:
I can't speak for the U.K., but in the U.S. people change their names legally with no justification necessary.
In this case (Mlynarsky), I would say the only difficulty is the "ml". If he changed the spelling to "mil", this would help the average American to sound it out.
In any case, I agree with the others who believe that holding onto one's family name is really more about feeling part of history. Especially, since genealogy has become... See more Dear Colleagues:
I can't speak for the U.K., but in the U.S. people change their names legally with no justification necessary.
In this case (Mlynarsky), I would say the only difficulty is the "ml". If he changed the spelling to "mil", this would help the average American to sound it out.
In any case, I agree with the others who believe that holding onto one's family name is really more about feeling part of history. Especially, since genealogy has become so popular! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Parrot
Spanien
Local time: 20:25
Spanska till Engelska
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who I've been calling "Giuli" for a month now... how do you pronounce your surname? (Funny how it never dawned on me before this...)
| | | | Jack Doughty
Storbritannien
Local time: 19:25
Ryska till Engelska
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In memoriam | I've been called some weird names too | Sep 25, 2003 |
My name is pronounced with the first syllable as in "doubt". But I have also been called Docherty, Dawty, Duffty and Doggerty. However, the one I really objected to was when I was inquiring about something at the lost property office at Paddington Station, gave my name, and was told: "Oh, you mean Dirty!"
And my friend Bill Jones, when living in Cologne, was addressed by the local shopkeepers as "Herr Yohnas".
| | | | IanW (X)
Local time: 20:25
Tyska till Engelska
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| Insect Transplantations | Sep 25, 2003 |
Here in Cologne, I've had to get used to receiving letters addressed to "Frau Ian Vinick", although there doesn't seem to be a problem with "Ian". By contrast, when I was studying in Lyon, I became known as Yann for a year - I'm sure William "Beeeeeell" Stein can sympathise with me on that.
The best laugh I've had was on receiving a marketing letter from a bank - out of my company name "Insight Translations", they somehow managed to make "Insect Transplantations". I jest you not.... See more Here in Cologne, I've had to get used to receiving letters addressed to "Frau Ian Vinick", although there doesn't seem to be a problem with "Ian". By contrast, when I was studying in Lyon, I became known as Yann for a year - I'm sure William "Beeeeeell" Stein can sympathise with me on that.
The best laugh I've had was on receiving a marketing letter from a bank - out of my company name "Insight Translations", they somehow managed to make "Insect Transplantations". I jest you not.
[Edited at 2003-09-25 19:15] ▲ Collapse
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DGK T-I
Storbritannien
Local time: 19:25
Georgiska till Engelska
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| How very kind of you to ask :-) | Sep 25, 2003 |
Parrot wrote:
who I've been calling "Giuli" for a month now... how do you pronounce your surname? (Funny how it never dawned on me before this...)
In latin letters, something like:
Kh-vreeve-ee-shvee-lee (with 'v'-as in English 'very')
(fortunately not one of the difficult Georgian words - it seems to me that consonants in many languages, unscientifically speaking, "sort of come with their own built-in vowels") although it is true that some other Georgian words have sounds in them that non-Georgians sometimes may find a little difficult to produce at first , although perhaps Welsh people would start with an advantage).
Thinking of Iza and Amy's comments, I guess all our languages are easy, if we know how....
[Edited at 2003-09-25 22:46]
| | | | invguy
Bulgarien
Local time: 21:25
Engelska till Bulgariska
| I guess I'm lucky :) | Sep 25, 2003 |
My name (Mikhail) has become fairly well known all over the world, thanks to Gorby So, even though most of my friends in Bulgaria call me Mike, and I also sign as 'Mike' in most of my informal correspondence over the Net, I have absolutely no prejudice about using my name 'as is' in official communication.
Else, I fully agree with Beth that there can... See more My name (Mikhail) has become fairly well known all over the world, thanks to Gorby So, even though most of my friends in Bulgaria call me Mike, and I also sign as 'Mike' in most of my informal correspondence over the Net, I have absolutely no prejudice about using my name 'as is' in official communication.
Else, I fully agree with Beth that there can be various reasons for wanting to change one's name - as well as that some of these reasons may be suspicious. But it might be just that the guy wants to cross out his past and (also symbolically) mark a new begining in his life... People happen to be emotional, superstitious, even fatalist - who can blame them? The alleged pronunciation difficulty might be simply an invented reason.
If someone comes to me with such a request, and if his/her name is indeed tricky to pronounce and/or spell correctly (or if it has negative connotations in the language of the destination country), I'd readily confirm. A statement like that could hardly have any more value than an expert's opinion - which might (or might not) be considered in legal procedures. Of course, if the request came from the court, then I'd be more careful
But in your case, Isa, I think I would have refrained, too: I don't see any particular difficulty in pronouncing Mlynarski. IMHO its possible phonetical deviations in an English-speaking environment would be comparable to those that occur with many English names (see Jack's post, for instance).
Well, if the guy wants to have a 100% 'safe' name, he might as well consider John Smith... ▲ Collapse
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