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What makes *someone* a native speaker? Thread poster: sdvplatt
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sdvplatt
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:06
Member (2003)
German to English
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Since I cant comment on the comments.
I am designing a system which looks at testing this remotely and without the need say for a direct interview
What makes someone a native speaker e.g. the purposes of proof-reading documents?
Self-reporting wont cut it.
Some ideas
A school leavers certificate from a standard school in the country with X as its primary language.
What about international schools? IB language
Or
Does on... See more Since I cant comment on the comments.
I am designing a system which looks at testing this remotely and without the need say for a direct interview
What makes someone a native speaker e.g. the purposes of proof-reading documents?
Self-reporting wont cut it.
Some ideas
A school leavers certificate from a standard school in the country with X as its primary language.
What about international schools? IB language
Or
Does one have to be able to read native language accent free?
Maybe other common linguistic features which can be tested by having the candidate read out a script.
[Edited at 2021-09-11 17:13 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Barbara Carrara 
Italy
Local time: 09:06
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
Can of worms about to be opened. Again!
(As per your desiderata, I've tried to put it as succinctly as possible.)
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sdvplatt
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:06
Member (2003)
German to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Barbara Carrara wrote:
Can of worms about to be opened. Again!
(As per your desiderata, I've tried to put it as succinctly as possible.)
Beware of what whom?
Do you have a link to where posted.
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Barbara Carrara
Italy
Local time: 09:06
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
| Forum Search | Sep 11, 2021 |
Succincly put, just type in 'native speaker'/'non-native' or the like and you'll see what I mean.
Hope you've got some time on your hands.
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Tony Keily
Local time: 09:06
Italian to English
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... not starting posts with 'What makes some a native speaker?'
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Natives are even more likely to be best at editing and proofreading than at translation.
ProZ tests for nativeness by getting you to submit a voice recording. This will doubtless produce a fair few false negatives but very few false positives and is therefore a sensible approach. It doesn’t prove you can write though.
As ever, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
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Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:06
Member (2008)
Italian to English
What makes some what?
If you mean "what makes some PEOPLE" then your question would have to be "What makes some people native speakers?"
Alternatively you could have asked "What makes someone a native speaker?"
Either way it seems clear you're not a native speaker of English yourself. But hey- there's nothing wrong with that.
[Edited at 2021-09-11 16:35 GMT]
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Someone who's internalised a language at a very young age, before they started learning it in any structured way. I also think that if someone thinks, dreams, and makes love in a certain language, that's a good indication of them being native speakers of it. Some people do this in more than one language and that makes them bilingual.
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Michele Fauble
United States
Local time: 00:06
Member (2006)
Norwegian to English
+ ...
| Succinct answer | Sep 11, 2021 |
How you learned the language. And no, it’s not knowing the language as well as a native speaker. That definition contains the term to be defined, and is thus circular and invalid.
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Adieu
Ukrainian to English
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| People who subconsciously curse in said language | Sep 11, 2021 |
When they stub their toe.
A native bilingual is someone who swears in two languages.
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expressisverbis
Portugal
Local time: 08:06
Member (2015)
English to Portuguese
+ ...
| Let me put it in simple terms | Sep 11, 2021 |
I don't know what makes "someone" a native speaker, but I know what it doesn't make me a native speaker of English.
That's why my profile shows, for example, "English to Portuguese" (in addition to my other two working languages), and not the other way around.
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| Native writers | Sep 12, 2021 |
Since translation ultimately deals with written text, being a native writer trumps being a native speaker.
Many native speakers are pretty lousy in written communication, as seen in social media. It takes an excellent command of the target language to succeed.
Can you produce a translated text that does not read like to translation to a native readership?
[Edited at 2021-09-12 14:25 GMT]
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| Speaking for myself | Sep 12, 2021 |
I'm a native speaker of English and a fluent speaker of Greek.
Ask me to complete a line like "Little Miss Muffet sat on a ..." and I can do it without thinking, even though if you asked me what the missing word means, I would have to guess.
I can't do that in Greek, because I learned that language as an adult, not as a child.
It isn't just knowing nursery rhymes, though. There's an entire corpus of language that informs and influences the way I use English... See more I'm a native speaker of English and a fluent speaker of Greek.
Ask me to complete a line like "Little Miss Muffet sat on a ..." and I can do it without thinking, even though if you asked me what the missing word means, I would have to guess.
I can't do that in Greek, because I learned that language as an adult, not as a child.
It isn't just knowing nursery rhymes, though. There's an entire corpus of language that informs and influences the way I use English. An extra 23 years of background in my first language, and those were formative years. I know I can never make that up in Greek.
It's that corpus, that background, that makes me a native English speaker. ▲ Collapse
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Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 10:06
Member
English to Turkish
| Stating the obvious | Sep 12, 2021 |
How about speaking without a funny accent? You can be bilingual all you want and write in the target language flawlessly, but you'll never be considered a 'native speaker' if you got a foreign accent when you talk.
[Edited at 2021-09-12 10:39 GMT]
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| Native means native: born into it | Sep 12, 2021 |
Korana Lasić wrote:
I also think that if someone thinks, dreams, and makes love in a certain language, that's a good indication of them being native speakers of it. Some people do this in more than one language and that makes them bilingual.
I gave birth (twice) in French, not lapsing into anything else at any point, but I started learning French at secondary school. I am indeed (functionally) bilingual, but definitely not native.
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