| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3] | Setting up as a freelancer in France - Useful info Thread poster: Neil Colledg (X)
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Angela Arnone 
Local time: 23:40
Member (2004)
Italian to English
+ ...
| Neil! Are you leaving proz.com? | Dec 13, 2005 |
Come on! Give it a chance - the site has a great deal to offer apart from forums and I don't agree about "official politburo thinking" - although I'm afraid the "squabbling" is a reality (not just here!).
Hope to read you again!
Angela
Neil Colledge wrote:
As I stated this morning, my little "holiday" on your forums ends tonight so if anyone wants to flame me one last time then go ahead.
Interesting and entertaining as this has been it's not really my scene and so I'll bid the "community" a not so sad goodbye. It's pretty clear that acceptance of official politburo thinking is "de rigeur" so why hit my head against a brick wall. I've just noted that I wasted 3000+ words on this forum with my various posts yesterday and today, squabbling with people. Both they and I should really know better.
| | | | | I'm privileged? | Dec 15, 2005 |
First of all, the privileged thing makes no sense whatsoever, but I am sure I am misunderstanding what was written again. Must be that the air up here on my privileged planet is different or something.
Angela Arnone wrote:
I'm afraid I tend to think that Neil's picture is very realistic and that you, Sara, are in a very privileged position.
I know a handful of persons like yourself who can command much more than the rest of us but they are working in specific sectors and they are unable to charge that amount all the time for everything.
I do have customers who pay me 10 cents a word but it's always very difficult, time-consuming and exhausting work - and there's not a lot of it
Something interesting happened to me the other night. I met some local translators (not a Powwow, these were non-Proz people). Well, surprise surprise, the conversation quickly turned to rates
I was pretty much at the bargain-basement end of the group with the majority of people working at 15 to 20 cents and even up to 25 cents in some cases. By the way, this was not 5 people meeting for coffee. Around 25 people were present.
I was in the *minority* with my rates of 10-12-16 cents.
For people who persist in believing that the low end is the only market that exists or that it is the "norm", if you are happy working at that end, then good for you. There's room for everybody out there. The sad thing about Neil's article is that he gives the impression that he is speaking from a position of authority on "market" conditions and new colleagues might actually believe what he says.
Too bad he decided to leave, but I guess Neil's a big boy and he can do what he wants.
Sara
[Edited at 2005-12-15 05:43]
| | | | Helene Diu
France
Local time: 23:40
Member (2004)
English to French
| Another long post... mainly about rates | Dec 15, 2005 |
Dear colleagues from the English community, please accept in advance my apologies for any mispelling and syntax mistakes
After reading Neil's page and both the French and English threads related to it, I thought I would add my comments:
1. Neil's website is very useful for a newbie who wants to get established. It also gives sound basic advice (like the 50% of revenue to be put aside). Plus, I must comman... See more Dear colleagues from the English community, please accept in advance my apologies for any mispelling and syntax mistakes
After reading Neil's page and both the French and English threads related to it, I thought I would add my comments:
1. Neil's website is very useful for a newbie who wants to get established. It also gives sound basic advice (like the 50% of revenue to be put aside). Plus, I must command him for not complaining about the French bureaucracy and complicated system. The French forum is packed with questions from newcomers asking for very basic information. Such a help page answers many of these questions. New entrepreneurs create value in our country, so a webpage that helps and encourages setting up new businesses in France is a good one.
Another important thing: Neil explains how to get officially registered, and he regrets (in the French thread) that many translators are actually on the black market. I do think, like Neil, that black market translators do more harm than a registered translator with lower rates. I tend to think that translators on the black market are often working part-time and supplementing some other revenue. They artificially increase the number of translators on the market and that pushes the rates down. Fortunately, serious agencies employ registered translators.
2. I had a good laugh at the "soirée de célibataire" bit.
3. Sara, Dominique: it would be a good idea to write a short ProZ article about the various translation markets. This would help "young" translators assess the multiple realities of the translation world.
When I started in 2004, I mainly used translation websites to try and get an idea of the rates prevailing in the market. Seeing on many ProZ pages that people boasting 3, 5 or even 10+ years of experience were indicating 0.08 euro as a target rate per source word made me think that as a beginner, this was probably the maximum I should aim for. Seeing that agencies were posting jobs at an already set, low rate, was also misleading.
All this to say that this does more harm than Neil's article, and I've seen this point debated here before ("Is ProZ actually helping or not helping the translators to maintain decent rates?")
For info to anyone, my actual rates, as a 2-year experience, EN>FR translator in France, are (in euro per source word):
Actual minimum (agency): 0.07
Actual maximum (agency): 0.10
Actual minimum (direct client): 0.12
Actual maximum (direct client): 0.15
I now ask 0.10 as a minimum for new clients (agencies), and must say I am turned down a lot.
Now if someone else would share their actual rates (not the target/maximum yaba yaba), that would help colleagues know what the markets can be! (Thanks, Sara, for giving yours).
Another info: a friend of mine working in the oil&gas industry told me of a recent quote they got from French agency, for a spanish > french technical job: 0,30 euro/source word. Thought everybody should know...
Helene ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Thank you for pointing this out... | Dec 15, 2005 |
Helene Diu wrote:
Another info: a friend of mine working in the oil&gas industry told me of a recent quote they got from French agency, for a spanish > french technical job: 0,30 euro/source word. Thought everybody should know...
Helene,
Thank you for pointing this out. The more translators I meet outside of Proz, the more I tend to hear about stories like this. We should all be aiming for this, in my opinion.
As translators and as businesspeople it is up to us to do the work required to get there (through marketing, networking, specializing, and always striving for improvement).
This also means being smart about starting your business. I saved lots of money doing something else before I started, so I never found myself feeling like I had to take on work at low rates to survive. I'd say it's much smarter to get a "job" (which could eventually become your area of specialization), save, and *then* start your business rather than starting with no safety net. Otherwise you end up a hamster on the 5-cent wheel. No time to catch your breath, never mind prospect for better clients.
As far as writing an article for the Knowledgebase, I am currently working on one about personal finance for translators (and other freelancers) so I don't have time to embark on a market analysis right now!
Sara
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Angela Arnone
Local time: 23:40
Member (2004)
Italian to English
+ ...
| Sara, I fail to understand why considering you privileged makes no sense | Dec 15, 2005 |
Perhaps it makes no sense to you as you think the rest of us are talking through our hats? Which is basically what is coming across from your posts.
Reminds me a bit of the Queen Mother who thought people were very foolish to be poor.
No one believes the low end is the only end - most people are well aware of the ridiculous imbalance in rates. Just as we all know there are very rich people on the planet and very poor people and a bunch of people who are neither rich nor poor.... See more Perhaps it makes no sense to you as you think the rest of us are talking through our hats? Which is basically what is coming across from your posts.
Reminds me a bit of the Queen Mother who thought people were very foolish to be poor.
No one believes the low end is the only end - most people are well aware of the ridiculous imbalance in rates. Just as we all know there are very rich people on the planet and very poor people and a bunch of people who are neither rich nor poor.
Most of us would like to earn double or treble or more. Sadly our markets are what they are and I have personal experience of people laughing in my face when I ask for a bit more. I am not alone. In fact, I'm in good company.
The sad thing is that Neil was very accurate in his analysis and I'm astonished that you are unaware of this very real situation. That is why I consider you privileged.
This thread is way off topic now and the person who started it has now left the site, so I'm locking it and if anyone is interested in starting a new discussion they are free and welcome to do so.
Regards
Angela
Sara Freitas-Maltaverne wrote: First of all, the privileged thing makes no sense whatsoever, but I am sure I am misunderstanding what was written again. Must be that the air up here on my privileged planet is different or something. Angela Arnone wrote:
I'm afraid I tend to think that Neil's picture is very realistic and that you, Sara, are in a very privileged position.
I know a handful of persons like yourself who can command much more than the rest of us but they are working in specific sectors and they are unable to charge that amount all the time for everything.
I do have customers who pay me 10 cents a word but it's always very difficult, time-consuming and exhausting work - and there's not a lot of it
Something interesting happened to me the other night. I met some local translators (not a Powwow, these were non-Proz people). Well, surprise surprise, the conversation quickly turned to rates I was pretty much at the bargain-basement end of the group with the majority of people working at 15 to 20 cents and even up to 25 cents in some cases. By the way, this was not 5 people meeting for coffee. Around 25 people were present. I was in the *minority* with my rates of 10-12-16 cents. For people who persist in believing that the low end is the only market that exists or that it is the "norm", if you are happy working at that end, then good for you. There's room for everybody out there. The sad thing about Neil's article is that he gives the impression that he is speaking from a position of authority on "market" conditions and new colleagues might actually believe what he says. Too bad he decided to leave, but I guess Neil's a big boy and he can do what he wants. Sara [Edited at 2005-12-15 05:43] ▲ Collapse
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