| Sidor om ämnet: < [1 2] | Off topic: bilingual toddler: not advisable? Trådens avsändare: Milos Prudek
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Erika P (X) 
Local time: 04:28
Engelska till Ungerska
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| as early as possible - teach and motivate | May 10, 2003 |
Dear Milos,
Learning a skill from parents or being infected by their enthusiasm is an invaluable experience.
You are worried about your English - fair enough, you would like to see the best possible result coming out of this, but the fact that neither you nor your partner are native English speakers should not discourage you from teaching your child from an early age.
The basic awareness of learning languages occurs very early - even if your child forgets... See more Dear Milos,
Learning a skill from parents or being infected by their enthusiasm is an invaluable experience.
You are worried about your English - fair enough, you would like to see the best possible result coming out of this, but the fact that neither you nor your partner are native English speakers should not discourage you from teaching your child from an early age.
The basic awareness of learning languages occurs very early - even if your child forgets actual words it will be a lot easier for your child to pick them up again later because of this experience.
At the Czech nursery/school your child will learn the necessary social skills and the Czech language – at home she/he will be taking informal and probably quite pleasurable \"lessons\" (books, movies, surfing the net, games, chatting, etc.) from Dad in English. Now isn’t that wonderful? The main point is that you have to work hard to keep her/him engaged!
Not to mention the benefit of a shared learning experience between the two of you, perhaps involving your partner, too.
I think that setting up a nursery with other parents is an excellent idea. Why not? On a shared budget you might be able to invite and accommodate native English teachers/childminders/students participating in exchange programmes, etc. Only good things can come out of this!
(My personal experience: insight into the life of a friend\'s family: Dutch Mum, Spanish Dad, they live in the UK. Kids - age 6 and 8 - receive English education. According to their mother sometimes they get mixed up a little... She also noticed that as they grow older they gradually clarify the differences. Their vocubalery and conversational skills are oustanding in 3 languages + they strike me as a very well adjusted bunch indeed. One of their little secrets is spending regular holidays in Spain and Holland where the kids are anxious to impress their friends with their language skills!)
My optimistic wishes,
Erika
[ This Message was edited by: Erika Pál on 2003-05-10 17:25] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Terry Gilman
Tyskland
Local time: 05:28
Medlem (2003)
Tyska till Engelska
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| Accent lessons from a nanny? | May 10, 2003 |
I agree with Roberta, but I\'d still say go ahead and arrange for play groups or whatever you had in mind if you have regular access to native speakers. Learning lots of songs and rhymes from an English native speaker (consistently AmE or BrE) can help your child develop a better accent and, like it or not, accent is important. Evidently, in many people, the vocal chords begin to go rigid after age 5 or so, which is why many/most adults have some trouble mimicking the sounds of another language.... See more I agree with Roberta, but I\'d still say go ahead and arrange for play groups or whatever you had in mind if you have regular access to native speakers. Learning lots of songs and rhymes from an English native speaker (consistently AmE or BrE) can help your child develop a better accent and, like it or not, accent is important. Evidently, in many people, the vocal chords begin to go rigid after age 5 or so, which is why many/most adults have some trouble mimicking the sounds of another language.
Best wishes for a safe \"birthday.\"
Terry ▲ Collapse
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I came to the USA when I was 2 years old, the only language my parents spoke to us was Spanish. My 6 siblings and I are all bilingual.
When I had my first child I decided I would raise her bilingual. Many people told me I was crazy, and would merely confuse the child ( as my husband speaks no spanish). Friends cited works that bringing up children bilingual brings about learning disabilities, etc. etc.
I followed my gut. my three children are now bilin... See more I came to the USA when I was 2 years old, the only language my parents spoke to us was Spanish. My 6 siblings and I are all bilingual.
When I had my first child I decided I would raise her bilingual. Many people told me I was crazy, and would merely confuse the child ( as my husband speaks no spanish). Friends cited works that bringing up children bilingual brings about learning disabilities, etc. etc.
I followed my gut. my three children are now bilingual. When we travel to Spain they are the only grand children / \"american\" 2nd cousins, great neices/nephews who can communicate with their relatives. My family applauds me, the school applauds me, my friends applaud me and my kids are thankful as it opens up a whole realm of experiences to them versus a monolingual child. Be they language of cultural in nature.
Additionally - it is my personal opinion, no scientific data to back it up, that the mere fact of knowing two or more languages brings about a flexibility in the thought process and the brain fundtion that is not existent in that of a monolingual person.
The important thing is consistency - once you decide to speak to a child in one language, remember to ALWAYs speak that language. As was pointed out to me by my pediatrician, infants and toddlers associate \"sounds\" with people - in my case, Mommy makes these sounds (spanish) and daddy those (English). It is not until they are older they actually realize they are different \"languages\" .
I have 2nd nephews who spoke Spanish, English, Catalan and French by the tine they were 5, and did not suffer any grave learning disabilities.
As far as the learning disabilities - all 3 of my children get straight A\'s in school. If that\'s a learning disability - I\'ll take it!
Do not hesitate to bring up your child multi-lingual!
Congratulations on the birth of your child, and may s/he be healthy and happy - as well as Mom!
majose pastor
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| | | | | I've seen your particular variant work in two families over here..... | May 11, 2003 |
I\'ve seen your particular variant work in two families over here in Germany - both parents were German native speakers, but one parent spoke fluent English. So that parent spoke to the kids in English while the other parent spoke to them in German. It works. It broadens your kid\'s mind. It\'s not as easy as if one parent is a native speaker.
As I said in my previous post consistency is the key. If you decide to talk to your kid in English, then do that all the time. Don\'... See more I\'ve seen your particular variant work in two families over here in Germany - both parents were German native speakers, but one parent spoke fluent English. So that parent spoke to the kids in English while the other parent spoke to them in German. It works. It broadens your kid\'s mind. It\'s not as easy as if one parent is a native speaker.
As I said in my previous post consistency is the key. If you decide to talk to your kid in English, then do that all the time. Don\'t go switching back and forth.
As Terry points out, introducing your kid to native speakers is an excellent idea. Have you considered an au pair? There are plenty of young people who would love to get the opportunity to live in a foreign country for a year to get to grips with a new language....
Hope all goes well for you and your wife!
Alison ▲ Collapse
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Milos Prudek
Tjeckien
Local time: 05:28
Engelska till Tjeckiska
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TOPIC STARTER | Cautiously optimistic | May 12, 2003 |
Thanks to all for personal stories and information. I have overcome fears of my girlfriend thanks to you, my friends.
I am sure it is very difficult, perhaps impossible. I\'m still going to try it. Recently I discovered a study by a Slovak researcher Jozef Stefanik who brought up his two kids bilingually (Slovak/English). His s... See more Thanks to all for personal stories and information. I have overcome fears of my girlfriend thanks to you, my friends.
I am sure it is very difficult, perhaps impossible. I\'m still going to try it. Recently I discovered a study by a Slovak researcher Jozef Stefanik who brought up his two kids bilingually (Slovak/English). His study is available in PDF format from http://www.elis.sk/hum/full/hum296d.pdf ▲ Collapse
| | | | blomguib (X)
Local time: 00:28
Engelska till Flamländska
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| My own experience: be consistent! | May 15, 2003 |
My situation is as follows: I\'m Belgian (Flemish part) and my wife is French (French part) and we live in the Netherlands where our three children were born. The three of them go to a Dutch school. At home my wife and I speak French, she speaks French to the children and I speak Dutch to them. Until now (the kids are now 11, 8 and 7) they have had no problems. Although French is their \"minority\" language, they have no problem whatsoever switching back and forth between the two languages. The ... See more My situation is as follows: I\'m Belgian (Flemish part) and my wife is French (French part) and we live in the Netherlands where our three children were born. The three of them go to a Dutch school. At home my wife and I speak French, she speaks French to the children and I speak Dutch to them. Until now (the kids are now 11, 8 and 7) they have had no problems. Although French is their \"minority\" language, they have no problem whatsoever switching back and forth between the two languages. The only thing I do advize you to do is be consistent in what language you speak to them: mummy always has to speak language 1 to the kids and daddy always language 2. Don\'t go mixing them up. We have friends who didn\'t stick to this and their children really have problems in mastering the TWO languages. It is as if they have never been able to seperate the two. In our case, it is true that the children have taken a bit more time to realize that there were actually two languages (some words they only new in French at first; the language of their mother who taught them the word and vv.). They made sentences where Dutch and French were mixed (FR/En example: Look, maman, the big avion!). After a whil, however, they realized that everything could be said in two different ways and from that point onwards, they start assimilating at an incredible speed!
I wish you good luck: the chance you\'re planning to give your child will be a fantastic asset in later life. It has taken me 35 years to master Dutch, French, German and English in such a way that I can actually work (I am among other things an engineer) fluently in them an am now trying to learn another language - Russian - and I can assure you that at 40, one definitely learns much slower than as a child! So, once again, good luck!!! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Marta Argat
Local time: 06:28
Kinesiska till Ukrainska
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| languages are like bacteria ( omnipresent and useful ) :) | May 16, 2003 |
Dear Milos, it is quite strange for me to read that Swiss kids are protected from other languages untill a certain age. If someone does so ( e.g. tries to do so ), that must be a little bit \"special\" family with their own \"special\" traditions  Different languages are omnipresent, and one can\'t put a screen between a child and his environement. And there is no need to do so. As many Pros before me have told you, kids distinguish and use the mos... See more Dear Milos, it is quite strange for me to read that Swiss kids are protected from other languages untill a certain age. If someone does so ( e.g. tries to do so ), that must be a little bit \"special\" family with their own \"special\" traditions Different languages are omnipresent, and one can\'t put a screen between a child and his environement. And there is no need to do so. As many Pros before me have told you, kids distinguish and use the most common language.
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| | | | Sarah Ponting
Italien
Local time: 05:28
Italienska till Engelska
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| I've seen it work too | May 30, 2003 |
[quote]Alison Riddell-Kachur wrote:
I've seen your particular variant work in two families over here in Germany - both parents were German native speakers, but one parent spoke fluent English. So that parent spoke to the kids in English while the other parent spoke to them in German. It works. It broadens your kid's mind.
I'm a native English speaker and my husband a native Italian. We live in Italy and both speak each other's languages. I spoke only English to our three kids when small, my husband only Italian. They're now 16,14 and 12 and bilingual. Our friends also have 3 kids of roughly the same age, but they're both native Italian speakers and only the mother is fluent in English. She speaks in English only to them, whilst the father speaks Italian. I notice no difference in terms of level of competence or accent between her children and my own when they speak English, so it's perfectly possible and certainly a great advantage for them.
What I did notice was that all 6 (my 3 and her 3) started talking slightly later than monolingual children, but that didn't cause any problems.
Later on, however, they tend to get lazy about speaking the language of the country that they're not living in - English in the case of my kids - I think that's because they get used to speaking the native language of the country at school and so start using it amongst themselves. Add the fact that their father speaks to them in that language as well, and it becomes quite difficult to "enforce" the use of English at home. They'll often reply in Italian. Nonetheless, they fully understand both languages, always get top marks in English at school and have no trouble communicating in English when we go to England or when their grandparents visit.
It's definitely worth the effort. Good luck!
Sarah
[Edited at 2003-05-30 20:06]
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Milos Prudek
Tjeckien
Local time: 05:28
Engelska till Tjeckiska
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TOPIC STARTER
I notice no difference in terms of level of competence or accent between her children and my own when they speak English, so it's perfectly possible and certainly a great advantage for them.
[Edited at 2003-05-30 20:06]
Thank you very much for this post, the most encouraging proof I ever could with for. I have discovered that there is an English kindergarten 60 km away from my home, alas not with native employees but with former au-pair Czech girls who were in England or U.S. for some time. So I think that I will be able to find enough support for this "task".
[Edited at 2003-05-31 09:31]
| | | | Heinrich Pesch
Finland
Local time: 06:28
Medlem (2003)
Finska till Tyska
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| | Quite the opposite! | Jun 3, 2003 |
Each parent speaks his mother tongue to the children. to do otherwise would be unnatural and gthat's one thing most children don't like! Consistency is the key. If there is a dominant language in the couple, the children may seek the "easy" solution and tend to favour the one they hear most often, in a given context. We have been consistent. Neither child spoke late either, both in fact spoke pretty well and pretty early on too!
Anecdote : Dixit Alison sitting in the back of the car... See more Each parent speaks his mother tongue to the children. to do otherwise would be unnatural and gthat's one thing most children don't like! Consistency is the key. If there is a dominant language in the couple, the children may seek the "easy" solution and tend to favour the one they hear most often, in a given context. We have been consistent. Neither child spoke late either, both in fact spoke pretty well and pretty early on too!
Anecdote : Dixit Alison sitting in the back of the car at the age of two after we had just seen a red tractor.
Alison to me : "Look at the big red tractor mummy!"
Alison to her daddy in her next breath : "Regarde papa. T'as vu le gros tracteur rouge?"
I always speak English to our children and Olivier always speaks French to them. Olivier and I converse in French. Alison knew that with her father she should speak in French and with me in English. Olivier was rather upset that she had not understood that even his English was up to that of a two year old!
At home, meal time conversations are in English and French, depending on who is speaking to whom.
When the children play together after having been with me, they continue in English and in French if they have just been in the company of French speakers.
One thing they do not do, and I am pleased about it, is use English to say things "in code" in front of their French friends. I've guarded them against that! And now, at the age of 8 and 6 they are becoming aware that many French people around them do speak or at least understand English. ▲ Collapse
| | | | cris_c79 (X)
Italien
Local time: 05:28
Engelska till Italienska
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| I used to play with English toys | Jun 25, 2003 |
I would like to add my own experience. I am Italian as both my parents. My mother knows English at a level I would define upper-intermediate. She used to speak Italian in the house but she gave me toys, videos, comics in English and tried to teach me as much as she could (she's a primary school teacher by the way)
Well, I cannot define myself as bilingual, but my love for English language and culture certainly comes from my education and to me studying English has always been connected wi... See more I would like to add my own experience. I am Italian as both my parents. My mother knows English at a level I would define upper-intermediate. She used to speak Italian in the house but she gave me toys, videos, comics in English and tried to teach me as much as she could (she's a primary school teacher by the way)
Well, I cannot define myself as bilingual, but my love for English language and culture certainly comes from my education and to me studying English has always been connected with something cheerful and wonderful as being a child! I know French and Spanish as well but to me English is different.
Eventually what I retained from this education is that I am making a job out of something that is not hard work but pure happiness.
I often asked myself what I will do with my own children, I wonder about the fact I won't be able to teach nursery rhymes and that stuff you learn only if you're native...
Whatever you choose to do, whether you give them your knowledge or not, you must give them your passion!
By the way, is the baby born already?
Good luck!!!
Cristina ▲ Collapse
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| Make sure the kid hears both languages equally | Jun 28, 2003 |
I have some relatives who are Russian immigrants to the US. Their youngest child was born in the US. They spoke nothing but Russian to her from birth, she has a lot of Russian relatives, but she does not speak very good Russian at all. She understands a lot, and she can speak, albeit with grammatical errors, but she is not a native speaker by any means (though she can understand what is said to her, mostly). I am not sure why, but most of the kids who are born to Russian immigrant parents i... See more I have some relatives who are Russian immigrants to the US. Their youngest child was born in the US. They spoke nothing but Russian to her from birth, she has a lot of Russian relatives, but she does not speak very good Russian at all. She understands a lot, and she can speak, albeit with grammatical errors, but she is not a native speaker by any means (though she can understand what is said to her, mostly). I am not sure why, but most of the kids who are born to Russian immigrant parents in the US do not have Russian as a native-level language. So I'm not sure how much help it will be just to speak English to the child as an isolated thing. Maybe, take him to England every once in a while? Or sign him up for a school that is taught in English, with English-speaking children as his classmates? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Personality also an issue? | Aug 18, 2003 |
Larisa Migachyov wrote:
I have some relatives who are Russian immigrants to the US. Their youngest child was born in the US. They spoke nothing but Russian to her from birth, she has a lot of Russian relatives, but she does not speak very good Russian at all. She understands a lot, and she can speak, albeit with grammatical errors, but she is not a native speaker by any means (though she can understand what is said to her, mostly). I am not sure why, but most of the kids who are born to Russian immigrant parents in the US do not have Russian as a native-level language. So I'm not sure how much help it will be just to speak English to the child as an isolated thing. Maybe, take him to England every once in a while? Or sign him up for a school that is taught in English, with English-speaking children as his classmates?
Larisa,
I wonder if this phenomenon has anything to do with personality. I was raised bilingual (Latvian and English) in the US - both of my parents spoke Latvian to me, and my grandmother, who did not speak English well, lived with us. English speaking was not tolerated in our home at all, and I had several friends whose families had the same approach. I can speak both.
I married an English-speaker (who can speak and understand basic Latvian), and we have two daughters, 3 1/2 and 3 mos. old. He speaks English to them, and I speak Latvian. The older one declared at the age of 2 that she "doesn't speak Latvian" - recently, she said, "English is my thing, Latvian isn't." (Yes, she's only 3, not 13!) This is a child that I have spoken nothing but Latvian to all of her life. We have Latvian music in the house, go to Latvian school on Saturdays, read Latvian books, attend Latvian playgroup, go to Latvian community events, visit Latvian-speaking relatives, etc. In other words, we have exposed her to everything Latvian that we could, but she still refuses to speak it (she understands me when I talk to her). She attends English-speaking pre-school part-time with kids who are almost all bilingual, so she doesn't stand out in that sense. I feel that I have done everything that I can (and will continue to do it), but at some point I have to relax and say, OK, she may never be bilingual, but at least she will grow up with an appreciation of her mother's culture. I think you can try all of the "right" approaches and to some extent it still comes down to the child's own preferences.
Milos,
I think it's a great idea to teach your child English in the way you outlined. One thing I have learned from the aforementioned experience is that I needed to define for myself what "bilingual" was. As a speaker of three languages myself and a translator, I always assumed my kids would be fluent in both languages. I have had to rethink that in light of the circumstances and realize that this is a continuum that ranges from completely fluent and comfortable in both languages and cultures to fluent and comfortable in one with a passing knowledge of the other. Both are OK (as is anything in between), but it just depends on what your goals are for your children.
| | | | Richard Benham
Frankrike
Local time: 05:28
Tyska till Engelska
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In memoriam | Three's a crowd.... | Sep 16, 2003 |
One occasionally hears that it is not advisable to raise children trilingual.
This is confirmed by my experience of adults raised in this way: they tend to have serious deficiencies in all three languages.
But, as they say, bilingual is beautiful.
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