Deja Vu X: Hidden upgrade fees Trådens avsändare: Andy Lemminger
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Andy Lemminger 
Kanada
Local time: 15:24
Medlem (2002)
Engelska till Tyska
As you might have noticed, Atril is currently offering an update to the new software version DejaVu X.
In August, when I purchased my DV3-license, they advertised a special deal, that (among other things) promised (quote):
"Is your next product update going to be free?
Deja Vu 3 includes all the tools you need for translating - in one single package and Deja Vu 3 users get an automatic free (yes, FREE!) update to the next major product release."
In f... See more As you might have noticed, Atril is currently offering an update to the new software version DejaVu X.
In August, when I purchased my DV3-license, they advertised a special deal, that (among other things) promised (quote):
"Is your next product update going to be free?
Deja Vu 3 includes all the tools you need for translating - in one single package and Deja Vu 3 users get an automatic free (yes, FREE!) update to the next major product release."
In fact the update to DVX is free but only if you agree to give up your DV3 license. After you did this your old dongle won't work with DV3 anymore and you won't be able to access former DV3-projects.
Atril said that would be no problem since all former projects are in the database that can be converted to DVX.
Nevertheless imagine a DV3-project where your client just wants to have done a few modifications.
You would have to create a new project in DVX, import files once again, pretranslate, watch out for wrong segmentations, which often are frequent and that you had already corrected in the existing DV3 project but cannot access anymore, correct those segmentations, pretranslate once again, watch out for multiple database entries to choose the correct entry...
Perhaps hours of work and therefore no option in my opinion. Or you could work in the target file but then your modifications would never find their way into the database.
The best way would be to use DV3 and make the changes. If you want to keep your old license though you have to pay 100 EUR.
In my opinion this policy is a hidden upgrade fee. If a "free update"-promise is made though, I think Atril should keep this promise and shouldn't try to get around it with such tricks. Even Trados seems to keep its promise in this regard and gives away the update for V6 without taking away the version 3 or 5 license. For the V5 update I even received a new dongle.
What do you think about this upgrade policy and what will you do? Pay additional 100 EUR for your "free" update or just give up the V3 license? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | They promised a free UPGRADE, not an extra licence! | May 27, 2003 |
Andy Lemminger wrote:
"Is your next product update going to be free?
Deja Vu 3 includes all the tools you need for translating - in one single package and Deja Vu 3 users get an automatic free (yes, FREE!) update to the next major product release."
That's exactly what they promised: a free update. That means adapting your version to the new version, not giving you the old version + a free licence for the new DVX.
I admit that I have asked the same question to the Atril vendor in Belgium and that is the answer he gave me. And that's a very fair answer, I think. Moreover, you only pay 100 euros if you want DV3 + DVX, which is only a fraction of the full price, so IMHO, their offer is very fair. Frankly, I don't know any other software company that gives you an extra licence for 10% of the full price...
fwiw
Joeri
| | | | Marc P (X)
Local time: 23:24
Tyska till Engelska
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| Extra licence for 10% | May 27, 2003 |
Frankly, I don't know any other software company that gives you an extra licence for 10% of the full price...
Joeri
OmegaT gives you an extra licence for 0% of the full price.
Marc
| | | | | IMHO no hidden fee: 1 program, 1 license | May 27, 2003 |
Hi Andy,
the point was made by Atril on the dejavu-l ML: DV3 and DVX are 2 totally different programs. A freeelancer buys normally 1 license, therefore the upgrade is free, if you don\'t keep your license for DV3 (1 license for DV3 substituted by 1 license for DVX). For a \"modest\" fee you have then 1 dongle (license) for 2 totally different programs... a rare opportunity, I\'d say.
I don\'t see it as a \"hidden fee\" at all: free upgrade to DVX, that i... See more Hi Andy,
the point was made by Atril on the dejavu-l ML: DV3 and DVX are 2 totally different programs. A freeelancer buys normally 1 license, therefore the upgrade is free, if you don\'t keep your license for DV3 (1 license for DV3 substituted by 1 license for DVX). For a \"modest\" fee you have then 1 dongle (license) for 2 totally different programs... a rare opportunity, I\'d say.
I don\'t see it as a \"hidden fee\" at all: free upgrade to DVX, that is one license, one program. When I upgraded from Trados 5.0 to Trados 5.5 (free upgrade at that time), my license/dongle was upgraded,... it works now only with 5.5.
Giuliana
P.S. I have kept my license for DV3 and don\'t regret it at all.
_________________
[Edited at 2003-05-27 12:19] ▲ Collapse
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sonni
Local time: 23:24
Engelska till Tyska
+ ...
| It's not a Sony - it's a trick | May 29, 2003 |
In my opinion this is not at all about two licenses. Licenses of former versions are totally worthless after a new software release, especially if you only have one dongle for both of them.
So this is not at all a great deal. I would rather call it "money for nothing".
Instead this issue is about compatibility.
A company should assure compatibility with its former releases. If it is too lazy or not capable to do it there should be at least a possibility to conver... See more In my opinion this is not at all about two licenses. Licenses of former versions are totally worthless after a new software release, especially if you only have one dongle for both of them.
So this is not at all a great deal. I would rather call it "money for nothing".
Instead this issue is about compatibility.
A company should assure compatibility with its former releases. If it is too lazy or not capable to do it there should be at least a possibility to convert old files. And don't be fooled: It doesn't matter at all that DV X is a totally different product. It better is or nobody would be interested in it. Nevertheless it should be possible to access or convert former projects.
Just imagine two scenarios:
Microsoft releasing Word 2004 but unfortunately you cannot access old Word-documents anymore. Only if you pay additional fees.
Or: SAP R10 is introduced in the market place but, sorry, you cannot convert your current business data. Pay additional money though, then you can keep R3. Now you can use it parallel on your old servers (of course you need new hardware to use R10!) and set up a clean new R10 system.
Nobody would think that this is a great deal, no matter how "cheap" the fee is.
Why should it then be a great deal for us translators? I never asked for a new license. But I was promised a free upgrade and I still have to access my old files.
Now I am forced into buying the old license once again although I already paid for it and the company wants to make me believe that this is a great offer. "Free" is 0$ and not 100$. Therefore in my opinion this is just a trick and it is also inconvenient even if you are willing to pay (because you have to work with two different software packages). If you want to access former projects you have to pay an update fee and keep an outdated software on your harddisk.
I think DejaVu is a great software and I always liked it much more than Trados. I also think that 100$ are easily affordable. Still, I don't like to be treated like a fool and that's exactly what Atril is trying to do here. Therefore I will neither buy this "free" update nor any other further updates from Aril. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Andy Lemminger
Kanada
Local time: 15:24
Medlem (2002)
Engelska till Tyska
TOPIC STARTER | Two licenses? | May 29, 2003 |
Giuliana Buscaglione wrote:
For a "modest" fee you have then 1 dongle (license) for 2 totally different programs... a rare opportunity, I'd say.
In fact you don't even seem to get two licenses. If you did you could sell one of them. But since you only have one dongle that's also not possible.
And what is the purpose of DV3 after I received DVX? I don't want DV3 anymore - I just want to be able to edit my old projects without having to spend hours.
| | | | Andy Lemminger
Kanada
Local time: 15:24
Medlem (2002)
Engelska till Tyska
TOPIC STARTER | Free Trados-update | May 29, 2003 |
Joeri Van Liefferinge (King Darling Communications) wrote:
Frankly, I don't know any other software company that gives you an extra licence for 10% of the full price...
When I updated Trados 3 to Trados 5.5 I received a new dongle. So in fact I now have Trados 3 and Trados 5.5 and I can use both versions on two computers (if that's of any benefit).
After the (completely free) update to Trados 6 I am almost sure that I still will be able to edit Trados 5 and Trados 3-projects without having to pay once more.
I don't want to advertise for Trados though. I would rather be happy not to receive an extra license for 100$ that I don't want if I could still edit old projects in DVX.
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| Updates are rarely incompatible with past versions, at least to some degree | May 30, 2003 |
sonni wrote:
Instead this issue is about compatibility.
A company should assure compatibility with its former releases. If it is too lazy or not capable to do it there should be at least a possibility to convert old files. And don't be fooled: It doesn't matter at all that DV X is a totally different product. It better is or nobody would be interested in it. Nevertheless it should be possible to access or convert former projects.
Just imagine two scenarios:
Microsoft releasing Word 2004 but unfortunately you cannot access old Word-documents anymore. Only if you pay additional fees.
I agree completely. A new software version incompatible with its third and earlier past versions is heard of, but incompatible with its previous version is unheard off. In effect, this does not seem to be a free upgrade after all!
Besides the cost of the "second" license, the cost of maintaining and using two copies of the software on one computer are also high, and could easily lead to extra work in the maintenance of unified versions of one's memories and terminology databases.
[Edited at 2003-05-30 10:08]
| | | | | The positive side | May 30, 2003 |
If you don't want to pay those 100$ for compatibility, you are urged to export all of your DV3 projects into tab-separated text files, which enables you to use your valuable ressources with Wordfast, Metatexis, SDLX(I think) and other fine programs.
Honestly, if they would not urge you to do this, would you find the time to leverage your valuable resources to such a variety of CAT tools? This upgrade policy will support your independance and potentiality in the long run. ... See more If you don't want to pay those 100$ for compatibility, you are urged to export all of your DV3 projects into tab-separated text files, which enables you to use your valuable ressources with Wordfast, Metatexis, SDLX(I think) and other fine programs.
Honestly, if they would not urge you to do this, would you find the time to leverage your valuable resources to such a variety of CAT tools? This upgrade policy will support your independance and potentiality in the long run. ▲ Collapse
| | | | sylver
Local time: 05:24
Engelska till Franska
| What's the point | Jun 8, 2003 |
Harry_B wrote:
If you don't want to pay those 100$ for compatibility, you are urged to export all of your DV3 projects into tab-separated text files, which enables you to use your valuable ressources with Wordfast, Metatexis, SDLX(I think) and other fine programs.
Honestly, if they would not urge you to do this, would you find the time to leverage your valuable resources to such a variety of CAT tools? This upgrade policy will support your independance and potentiality in the long run.
...of getting one's personnal TM in tmx of txt, if you don't need it? When you need to share one (extremely rare, why would one share his personnal TMs?), it's so easy to just export there and then, except of course if we are talking of an agency using several CATs.
I think it is pretty lame for DV to discontinue support for its previous formats. They should at least keep a filter to convert the TMs to the new format.
I mean, what if everybody did like them, it would be a scandal big time. Imagine if Word 2002 couldn't read word 2000 files without a conversion via RTF? That would be a MAJOR pain in the bottom part of our anatomy!
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