| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Suspected scam (overpayment method) Thread poster: Jennifer White
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| Worth a little media coverage? | Jun 5, 2011 |
Stéphanie Denton wrote:
They are not being helpful, telling me I'm panicking for nothing!!!!
I suppose I shouldn't be surprised! Then there's that tired old "our hands are tied" line that they love to trot out...
I could understand banks not being very interested in cases like this, because it's not their money being stolen, but if the police aren't always very aware, that's more disappointing. I suppose it's a slightly unusual crime in that it's the victim who receives the money obtained by fraudulent means, albeit unwittingly, whereas the scammer - if successful - obtains money from the victim simply by asking for it, rather than stealing it as such. From the police's point of view, the translator may appear to be the real culprit, as (s)he is the one who banked the stolen cheque and benefited from the fraud. Later, when (s)he is asked where the cheque came from and points to an elusive businessman whose existence can't be proven, the translator's story may not seem very credible and the police might even suspect that (s)he and the "client" were in it together from the beginning, only for the translator to try to shift the blame onto the "accomplice" when caught. It's quite a clever frame-up, I must admit.
No doubt some police officers will be more clued-up about this than others, but when people come to them with evidence that clearly suggests cheque theft/forgery only to be told that they're panicking unnecessarily, that's not a healthy sign! I wonder if there are any journalists out there who would like to run a story about this, it might raise public awareness or encourage politicians to change police procedures (or am I being too idealistic?! ) Maybe it has already been reported, but I have yet to see anything in the press or on TV about it. Last week's Panorama documentary about that awful care hospital really got the nation talking. Of course this scam isn't in quite the same league, but it does seem that media coverage can make a difference sometimes when no one else wants to listen to the whistle-blowers.
[Edited at 2011-06-06 12:10 GMT]
| | | | Stéphanie Denton (X) 
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:15
French to English
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If any of you have been subject to this scam recently (even just an e-mail from them, not necessarily the cheque being sent out), please contact me directly for CIDs direct telephone number and the person in charge of the investigation.
I can also provide the incident number.
There has been an incident where cheque books have been stolen. It is under investigation.
Thanks
NOTE: I am being sent e-mails from non ProZ members, who are quite... See more If any of you have been subject to this scam recently (even just an e-mail from them, not necessarily the cheque being sent out), please contact me directly for CIDs direct telephone number and the person in charge of the investigation.
I can also provide the incident number.
There has been an incident where cheque books have been stolen. It is under investigation.
Thanks
NOTE: I am being sent e-mails from non ProZ members, who are quite clearly the scammers themselves, trying to get information. I shall not reply to anyone who is not a ProZ member and who cannot prove their identity.
[Edited at 2011-06-06 12:56 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Gene Selkov
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:15
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Not quite a frame-up | Jun 6, 2011 |
Peter, I believe you exaggerate a couple aspects of this scheme. First, the fraudster is not simply asking the victim to send him money. He uses deceit to exchange bad money for good. That is a criminal offence. Then, the victim commits no crime by depositing a fraudulent cheque, because it is not his or her own cheque. So there is really no frame-up as such. The only thing the victim can be guilty of is ignorance and gullibility.
I agree that we could use better media coverage of t... See more Peter, I believe you exaggerate a couple aspects of this scheme. First, the fraudster is not simply asking the victim to send him money. He uses deceit to exchange bad money for good. That is a criminal offence. Then, the victim commits no crime by depositing a fraudulent cheque, because it is not his or her own cheque. So there is really no frame-up as such. The only thing the victim can be guilty of is ignorance and gullibility.
I agree that we could use better media coverage of this kind of thing; in particular if the police fails to use all freedoms afforded to them by the law in solving it. It is true that their hands are tied to some extent. It is also true that they are reluctant to get engaged into something that does not appear doable to them, especially when they do not understand it properly. All we can do is keep reporting it.
I had a rather bad thing happen to me in the past that I wished would receive some media coverage. My laptop was stolen in Scotland three years ago; the thieves did not even bother to reinstall the system on it and continued to use it (or sold it to somebody), leaving my DynDNS client running. That meant I was regularly made aware of its IP address. The first update I received was within an hour after it was stolen. Sounds like I was extremely lucky, right?
No matter how I tried, I failed to explain my local police how to use that information to locate the thing and why they needed to do it quickly. They got back to me almost a year later saying that the information I provided led them nowhere because by then the ISPs' logs have rotated several times. I still see that stolen laptop today. They failed at something that would appear totally straightforward to all of us. I guess we need to be more persistent and keep explaining. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Reality vs. appearance | Jun 6, 2011 |
Gene Selkov wrote:
Peter, I believe you exaggerate a couple aspects of this scheme. First, the fraudster is not simply asking the victim to send him money. He uses deceit to exchange bad money for good. That is a criminal offence. Then, the victim commits no crime by depositing a fraudulent cheque, because it is not his or her own cheque. So there is really no frame-up as such. The only thing the victim can be guilty of is ignorance and gullibility.
The point I am making is about how this will all look from the police's point of view. The victim is made to look like a fraudster, as (s)he is the one who ends up with the bad money coming from the stolen cheque; that money doesn't pass directly into the scammer's hands. As you say, the scammer ends up with good (i.e. the victim's) money, which the victim transfers voluntarily - unlike the money that the real account-holder loses, which is taken without their knowledge. The scammer gets the victim to do some of his dirty work for him by taking the stolen cheque to the bank, and that's where the frame-up happens. The scammer is the one who sets out to deceive, and the victim is acting in good faith, but the way the scam works is to make it look like it's the other way round! And unfortunately for one victim in the US, it seems, that's exactly what the police assumed initially: http://articles.sfgate.com/2006-08-30/business/17308300_1_craigslist-bofa-bogus-check
That was four years ago, I'm surprised this variation of the scam is as old as that as I'd never heard of it before. Maybe it's just fairly new in the UK, I don't know, or maybe I haven't been reading the right newspapers!
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Hi all,
I too have been an attempted victim of this "Fred Michel" scam. I just called the company in NI whose chequebooks had been stolen and then sold on on the black market to these fraudsters. They told me that they have had several calls from translators and also B & B owners, all of whom had received emails from "Fred" and that some of these people had been taken in by the scam and had sent money. They gave me details of the police officer investigating the case and I have l... See more Hi all,
I too have been an attempted victim of this "Fred Michel" scam. I just called the company in NI whose chequebooks had been stolen and then sold on on the black market to these fraudsters. They told me that they have had several calls from translators and also B & B owners, all of whom had received emails from "Fred" and that some of these people had been taken in by the scam and had sent money. They gave me details of the police officer investigating the case and I have left a message with them in case I have a piece of the jigsaw puzzle that can help them catch the culprit.
I have a cheque, but have not cashed it after I got suspicious when asked to wire the difference back via Western Union yesterday. I used Googlemaps to check out the UK address that "Fred" had given me as his current abode during his UK business trip - and found that it didn't exist. I then copied and pasted his initial email text into Google and was directed to this thread.
I'm so glad that this thread exists as it has saved me a lot of time and money!
Best wishes,
Helen ▲ Collapse
| | | | Gina W
United States
Local time: 23:15
Member (2003)
French to English
| It's always good to warn fellow translators | Jun 7, 2011 |
Jennifer White wrote:
but this one wasn't quite so obvious as others I've had.
Plus, it never hurts to start a thread to make other translators aware. So thanks for that.
| | | | Kate Stansfi (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:15
Spanish to English
+ ...
Thanks for starting this thread (I forget who did now!) - I googled the chap in question and 'scam' and this came up, however I'd got to the stage of currently awaiting the cheque and being about to email the 'client' to say if I did not receive it on Monday I would not be able to finish the job before his deadline... of course, what would he care!
I thought it was fishy, but at the same time was inexperienced at accepting jobs via proz.com, did not find anything online when I firs... See more Thanks for starting this thread (I forget who did now!) - I googled the chap in question and 'scam' and this came up, however I'd got to the stage of currently awaiting the cheque and being about to email the 'client' to say if I did not receive it on Monday I would not be able to finish the job before his deadline... of course, what would he care!
I thought it was fishy, but at the same time was inexperienced at accepting jobs via proz.com, did not find anything online when I first received the email and therefore just traced the IP and took the precaution of agreeing to start the job ONLY when the cheque cleared into my account (since he had not provided company details etc.. which he did once I requested them for my invoice, and they belonged to a financial services company). I now realise, thanks to you all, that even requesting advance payment is not a guarantee. I will go with my instincts next time! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kate Stansfi (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:15
Spanish to English
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By the way... any advice on whether I should reply to say I have been alerted to the scam and will not be proceeding with the translation, or whether I should cease all communication with him? Presuming the latter, but any advice appreciated.
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Jennifer White
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:15
French to English
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TOPIC STARTER | I would do nothing | Jun 10, 2011 |
This man knows he has been rumbled and it's a police matter now. Stay clear - and don't open any attachments from an unknown source. (I make this a rule having been warned umpteen times by banks etc.) He (they) may have another alias. The chances are it's a gang, as goodness knows how many translators have been targeted, also B & Bs, and stolen cheques are used.
| | | | | Craig... aka good old Fred? | Jun 13, 2011 |
Dear all
I received the following message on Saturday:
Greetings!
My name is Craig Davs from Uae,Dubai and a
resident of Dubai.I am presently in the
Dublin on a business trip.However,I will need your service
to translate some documents for me.I need to make a
presentation to some groups of Italian speaking people in
Dublin on 30th of June,2011.I will need you to help me to
translate the ... See more Dear all
I received the following message on Saturday:
Greetings!
My name is Craig Davs from Uae,Dubai and a
resident of Dubai.I am presently in the
Dublin on a business trip.However,I will need your service
to translate some documents for me.I need to make a
presentation to some groups of Italian speaking people in
Dublin on 30th of June,2011.I will need you to help me to
translate the papers from English to Italian,so each of my
audience can have a copy in Italian language and they can
follow through.I will also need that the work be delivered
by/before June 30th,2011.Please,let me know your rate(in pounds)
for a total of about 10,000 words presentation(See
attachments) and your methods of payment so i can instruct
my associate here in United kingdom to have the payment
dispatched to you as soon as we are able to agree terms.I look forward to
hearing back from you.
craig
Sounds familiar?
I asked the attachments first, he's pressing to have a quote to send the check. I asked more info later on, insisting on a bank payment. Still no answer... I am not in the UK, so can't contact local authorities to help you all. Maybe he doesn't know still, as I used to live there
Donatella
[Edited at 2011-06-13 19:47 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | ABCText
Germany
Local time: 05:15
English to German
+ ...
| In the mail I received via ProZ.com yesterday he comes from Denver, Colorado... | Jun 14, 2011 |
... and is a resident of Paris:
Greetings!
>
> My name is Craig Davs from Denver,colorado and a
> resident of Paris,France.I am presently in the
> Dublin on a business trip.However,I will need your service
> to translate some documents for me.I need to make a
> presentation to some groups of French speaking people in
> Paris on 12th of July,2011.I will need you to help me
> translate the papers from English to French,so each of my<... See more ... and is a resident of Paris:
Greetings!
>
> My name is Craig Davs from Denver,colorado and a
> resident of Paris,France.I am presently in the
> Dublin on a business trip.However,I will need your service
> to translate some documents for me.I need to make a
> presentation to some groups of French speaking people in
> Paris on 12th of July,2011.I will need you to help me
> translate the papers from English to French,so each of my
> audience can have a copy in French language and they can
> follow through.I will also need that the work be delivered
> by/before July 10th,2011.Please,let me know your rate(in
> pounds)
> for a total of about 7199 words presentation(See
> attachments) and your methods of payment so i can instruct
> my associate here in United kingdom to have the payment
> dispatched to
> you as soon as we are able to agree terms.I look forward
> to
> hearing back from you.
>
> craig
What made me hesitate and "google" him also was the fact that his mail starts just the way all the emails of people who pretend having money to send you do... ▲ Collapse
| | | | Gene Selkov
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:15
Spanish to English
+ ...
| same person or not | Jun 14, 2011 |
These messages may have the same source, but it does not mean there is only one person using them. Maybe it is a successful formula that has trawled in enough cash to become famous and now everybody wants to try it.
Please post the IP addresses it was deposited from and the return-to addresses; I will try and see if there is a pattern. There may be a pattern even if the addresses are different, because we're on a segmented network. If the first contact came through ProZ, you should ... See more These messages may have the same source, but it does not mean there is only one person using them. Maybe it is a successful formula that has trawled in enough cash to become famous and now everybody wants to try it.
Please post the IP addresses it was deposited from and the return-to addresses; I will try and see if there is a pattern. There may be a pattern even if the addresses are different, because we're on a segmented network. If the first contact came through ProZ, you should find the source IP address prepended to the message body, like so:
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You have been sent a message via ProZ.com.
Author: Fred Michel [NOTE: The author is not a registered ProZ.com user or was not logged in when sending this message.]
Author's IP address: 173.245.84.192
Message type: Request for quote
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Natalie
Poland
Local time: 05:15
Member (2002)
English to Russian
+ ...
MODERATOR SITE LOCALIZER
In case you receive any suspicious message through your profiles, please contact site staff immediately, instead of discussing in the forums. This would allow taking necessary action to stop the scammer from sending further messages.
Natalia
| | | | Isadora MORA
Mexico
Local time: 21:15
English to Spanish
+ ...
| Same idea,different name, different language | Jun 16, 2011 |
Dear colleagues:
This week I replied to a job offer in PROZ, please see: http://www.proz.com/job/539602.
This morning I got this reply:
Hello Isadora,
My Name is James,Am out of town to Sweden,I appreciate the time you take out to send your CV and the write up.I have checked your Cv and i am pleased to tell you that i choose you to work on the project for we... See more Dear colleagues:
This week I replied to a job offer in PROZ, please see: http://www.proz.com/job/539602.
This morning I got this reply:
Hello Isadora,
My Name is James,Am out of town to Sweden,I appreciate the time you take out to send your CV and the write up.I have checked your Cv and i am pleased to tell you that i choose you to work on the project for we are in between a new business.I am a Private investor who work with local and few foreign business on short time business.I attached a part of the work tittles project, just want you to have understanding of what we are about to do together.
Address is .
Name. James Monti
Address..34, vallingby,
Stockholm
Sweden
Now i guess you have an idea of the person you about to start work with. Please let it be clear that it is a beginning of a good business relationship so consider that about the price.
The delivery date is negotiable but must be done in 2weeks
Can you state out your date of delivery and method in which you will have all done
please calculate the total amount, also state out the discount..
categorically state your city and country of residence?
I hope we can come to term for success of this project. Thank you
Best regards
I suspected it was a scam right away: the name of the person who posted the job offer is Benedetta Monti, now a certain James Monti is replying. The English in his email is very poor and the text he attached in French has a lot of mistakes as well, whiche makes me think he used an online translator both for the email and the text in French.
I did not reply to the email, instead I frowarded the email to my best friend and colleague for her oppinion on this. I came across Jennifer's post, it struck my attention, have read all the threads to the end and have reported the job offer to the PROZ team as a "suspected scam". I have to say that Jennifer's idea to post this offer was very helpful and I believe if we all do the same we can help this website to become a safer working environment.
Sincere regards,
Isadora Mora ▲ Collapse
| | | | Isadora MORA
Mexico
Local time: 21:15
English to Spanish
+ ...
| sorry for the fat finger on "whiche" | Jun 16, 2011 |
Isadora MORA wrote: Dear colleagues: This week I replied to a job offer in PROZ, please see: http://www.proz.com/job/539602. This morning I got this reply: Hello Isadora, My Name is James,Am out of town to Sweden,I appreciate the time you take out to send your CV and the write up.I have checked your Cv and i am pleased to tell you that i choose you to work on the project for we are in between a new business.I am a Private investor who work with local and few foreign business on short time business.I attached a part of the work tittles project, just want you to have understanding of what we are about to do together. Address is . Name. James Monti Address..34, vallingby, Stockholm Sweden Now i guess you have an idea of the person you about to start work with. Please let it be clear that it is a beginning of a good business relationship so consider that about the price. The delivery date is negotiable but must be done in 2weeks Can you state out your date of delivery and method in which you will have all done please calculate the total amount, also state out the discount.. categorically state your city and country of residence? I hope we can come to term for success of this project. Thank you Best regards I suspected it was a scam right away: the name of the person who posted the job offer is Benedetta Monti, now a certain James Monti is replying. The English in his email is very poor and the text he attached in French has a lot of mistakes as well, whiche makes me think he used an online translator both for the email and the text in French. I did not reply to the email, instead I frowarded the email to my best friend and colleague for her oppinion on this. I came across Jennifer's post, it struck my attention, have read all the threads to the end and have reported the job offer to the PROZ team as a "suspected scam". I have to say that Jennifer's idea to post this offer was very helpful and I believe if we all do the same we can help this website to become a safer working environment. Sincere regards, Isadora Mora
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