Are there still ProZ problems?

On 2002-11-02 23:50, WriteWord wrote:

Although the \"Propose an Answer\" button has disappeared, I have discovered that it is still possible to propose an answer by clicking on \"Add a Comment\". So if you do that, you should be able to propose your answer as usual.



True - that\'s something to be sorted out (probably as simple as changing the link label).



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Somewhat more annoyingly, the \"Choose a Winner\" button has disappeared. But I think it may be possible to work around this too, by accessing the question from an e-mailed answer notification. That takes you straight to the page of your question where you choose winners. But if you access the question directly from the site, you can\'t grade it, because there\'s no \"Choose a Winner\" button any more.



Have a look at the right of the question - there\'s a \"Grade it\" link. ▲ Collapse

On 2002-11-04 04:32, refugio wrote:

Is ProZ a club, or is it a business? The camaraderie and patience displayed is more like that of club, yet money changes hands.



Right now I see ProZ as a community - definitely more than a club, but not (yet?) a fully-fledged business. The community spirit is the single most valuable asset of ProZ.com.



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Maybe not enough money to have fixed these problems as quickly as a less folksy business would be expected to do.



Probably, although I have seen major businesses go offline for a couple of days because of technical problems. What we need to recognise is that technical problems are unavoidable - the question is how much of safety level is affordable. Let me assure you that Henry and his team are assessing these issues very seriously.



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My point is, if it is a club, maybe we should have all been asked to chip in to help cover the shortfall. If it is a business, maybe having free regular memberships is a luxury we can no longer afford. A successful business needs to have emergency plans, and cashflow, in place in order to avoid the severe disruption of user services that happened this time. How many hundreds of members are there? Would a modest regular membership fee have made a difference?



I don\'t think so - even with massive technical backup solutions you will never achieve 100% availability. In economic terms, free membership is ProZ\'s way of \"paying\" for the community asset I referred to above. IOW by imposing an entry-level payment ProZ would lose those contributors who come in to \"just give it a try\" (such as very experienced members of other language forums), but would probably refrain from joining if they were asked to pay.



Summarising: yes, the outage and associated data loss represent a serious event that needs to be looked at in detail, with the appropriate actions taken soon. But IMO it does not question the ProZ community/business model. ▲ Collapse

On 2002-11-04 04:32, refugio wrote:

Is ProZ a club, or is it a business? The camaraderie and patience displayed is more like that of club, yet money changes hands.





I\'ve been here for more than one year and this has never happened before, may be that\'s the reason why there is so much camaraderie and patience displayed.



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Maybe not enough money to have fixed these problems as quickly as a less folksy business would be expected to do.





So you think money makes the difference ?

I don\'t know what Proz staff needed to fix every detail but I do know that this happenend on a week end, may be long in the US, I\'m not sure. And I also know that during weekends there is less traffic on the site, so that it could have been worse.



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My point is, if it is a club, maybe we should have all been asked to chip in to help cover the shortfall.





I\'m afraid I would have been unable to help in any way.



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If it is a business, maybe having free regular memberships is a luxury we can no longer afford.





Yes ! We need to find a responsable ! That might be all these people who don\'t pay. Not responsable for the crash, but responsable for the disruption length !



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A successful business needs to have emergency plans, and cashflow, in place in order to avoid the severe disruption of user services that happened this time. How many hundreds of members are there? Would a modest regular membership fee have made a difference?





You seem to think that money would have made a difference. Of course there would be less members if it was a condition to belong to this site, but I wonder if the atmosphere would be so nice.



But I guess we need people that show they are unhappy, because if not it would be a fantasy world like Disney, too nice to be true. ▲ Collapse

On 2002-11-04 04:32, refugio wrote:

Is ProZ a club, or is it a business? The camaraderie and patience displayed is more like that of club, yet money changes hands. Maybe not enough money to have fixed these problems as quickly as a less folksy business would be expected to do. My point is, if it is a club, maybe we should have all been asked to chip in to help cover the shortfall. If it is a business, maybe having free regular memberships is a luxury we can no longer afford. A successful business needs to have emergency plans, and cashflow, in place in order to avoid the severe disruption of user services that happened this time. How many hundreds of members are there? Would a modest regular membership fee have made a difference?





Good question and points. Knowing the details of what happened this time, Ralf and Giuliana have already given appropriate replies from a practical standpoint: in short, more money would not have prevented this problem. (We had built-in redundancies that I believed would be sufficient. I was wrong. So now, we are taking steps to prevent future outages of this type, and though the new configuration will not be completely foolproof--of course--lack of funds is not a factor in the upgrade.)



To answer the philosophical side of your question, I can say that I do not yet see a reason why ProZ.com can not be *both* a business and a place where \"camaraderie and patience (is) displayed.\" Though there are some instances of associations, etc., that are set up as for-profit, I do not know of any entity with exactly this mix. Maybe it can not be carried on forever--maybe we will have to choose one over the other. Anyway, over time we will find out if it was possible, because we are shooting for both! ▲ Collapse

On 2002-11-06 00:19, RCW wrote:

My particular problem is as follows:



1. Kudoz questions not answered: the \'propose an answer\' box is missing.

2. Kudoz questions answered but not graded: the above-mentioned box is missing.

3. Kudoz questions answered and graded: they are the only places where that box is present ... but, of course, not useful.



Is it only my problem or is it a generalized one?



Raúl Waldman.



There are a couple of postings *in this thread* dealing with this very issue...



Also, please check this thread (in the same forum): www.proz.com/?sp=bb/viewtopic&topic=6126&forum=23&7 ▲ Collapse