| Sidor om ämnet: < [1 2 3] > | Course in proofreading - waste of money? Trådens avsändare: Paul Carmichael
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Sheila Wilson 
Spanien
Local time: 20:51
Medlem (2007)
Engelska
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| I've been wondering about doing it | Oct 4, 2012 |
Carolyn Yohn wrote:
I strongly recommend finding a course through a local college or community center. (In the Washington, DC area, EE/I Communications is good.)
That's all very well if you live in a country where they speak your target (and/or proofreading) language, but here in Spain I seriously doubt that there are any English in-person courses. There certainly aren't any on my little Canary Island.
I like the look of this course very much. I looked at it several months ago but decided to wait until after my move to Spain, where I'd be allowed to claim business expenses (not possible for some freelancers in France). Now I look at it again there seems to be a slight addition: there are now some optional on-line exercises related (I believe) to on-screen proofreading.
Even though much of it's on paper, I'm still interested and I'd like to hear from others that have done it.
| | | | Nicole Schnell
USA
Local time: 12:51
Engelska till Tyska
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In memoriam | Yes. It will also give you a good idea of how others will read your texts | Oct 5, 2012 |
Fiona Kirton wrote:
I did the same course myself some time ago and in my view it was money well spent. First of all, the use of "ancient" symbols and proofreading on paper is still widespread within the publishing industry. Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, the course gives a very good grounding in proofreading skills that are just as relevant when doing revision on screen as they are when doing it on paper.
Fiona is right.
No matter how "superb" you consider your own skills.
Your editor / proofreader is your test market, even with legal texts. The crux with delivering the perfect text:
- Some proofreaders consider themselves more "superb" than you - wayyy too superb to ever take a class but they do it anyway
- The translator is way too superb to consider a silly little double-blank space or American or French punctuation in a German text a typo and starts to argue with the proofreader instead of saying "Thanks! Good catch!"
- The young translator considers quality a thing of the last century because he is, like, totally superb.
| | | | Nicole Schnell
USA
Local time: 12:51
Engelska till Tyska
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In memoriam | The ancient symbol system | Oct 5, 2012 |
Paul Carmichael wrote:
I think I may have just wasted GBP400.
I ordered a course in proofreading. I have just found out that it uses some ancient symbol system, employing these little sticks called "pens".
Is this really of any use in this century?
It is a means of communication. If you want to work on highly paid proofing projects (first thing you will learn in this class is to never mix up proofing with proofreading), you need to learn this stuff. There is no such thing as any advertising firm or publisher willing to send you a 70MB or 170MB or 700MB print file loaded with high-resolution pictures via email (not because you couldn't upload such files onto your FTP-sites or so, but because your PC-settings are most likely to screw up the print files as soon as you save them) or to be willing to create a cutesy little extra low-res PDF extra for you, or to be willing to convert a 300-pages, fully layouted book with illustrations or photos or an entire catalog back into a Word-file - simply because you consider this established way of marking errors "ancient".
| | | | Paul Carmichael
Spanien
Local time: 21:51
Spanska till Engelska
TOPIC STARTER
Nicole Schnell wrote:
- The young translator considers quality a thing of the last century because he is, like, totally superb.
I don't know if that refers in any way to my comments about ancient symbols etc., but best you know that I'm anything but "young" (just turned 51 last week). Also I was considering the course (in fact I actually paid for it) in the hope of improving my proofreading skills. It was only when I realised that it was paper-based that I kicked up.
So let's not change this thread into having a pop at these "totally superb" translators that refuse to take courses, eh?
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Paul Carmichael
Spanien
Local time: 21:51
Spanska till Engelska
TOPIC STARTER | So, we're all agreed then? | Oct 5, 2012 |
Nicole Schnell wrote:
It is a means of communication. If you want to work on highly paid proofing projects (first thing you will learn in this class is to never mix up proofing with proofreading), you need to learn this stuff. There is no such thing as any advertising firm or publisher willing to send you a 70MB or 170MB or 700MB print file loaded with high-resolution pictures via email (not because you couldn't upload such files onto your FTP-sites or so, but because your PC-settings are most likely to screw up the print files as soon as you save them) or to be willing to create a cutesy little extra low-res PDF extra for you, or to be willing to convert a 300-pages, fully layouted book with illustrations or photos or an entire catalog back into a Word-file - simply because you consider this established way of marking errors "ancient".
I don't want to work on highly paid proofing projects, nor will I be working with any "700MB print file loaded with high-resolution pictures".
I am not working in the "publishing" industry, with it's writing sticks etc., I am a translator who is sent word/pdf files etc. to translate or proofread. So, in answer to my original question, it would appear that yes, I made the right decision in having a refund. Even the people selling the course said so.
Thanks everyone for you input. Definitely will do some sort of training if I can find something suitable. But it will not be paper-based
| | | | Tatty
Local time: 21:51
Spanska till Engelska
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That's the problem with any course that isn't specifically designed for translators. Its always overkill. But just the non-foreign language related proofreading part of the course alone would probably make for a pretty weak course. Personally, I'm studying a law degree for the purposes translating and it is clearly overkill. But there is no other way I can access the information I need.
If you wish to improve your own translations and have time on your hands, you can reread your own... See more That's the problem with any course that isn't specifically designed for translators. Its always overkill. But just the non-foreign language related proofreading part of the course alone would probably make for a pretty weak course. Personally, I'm studying a law degree for the purposes translating and it is clearly overkill. But there is no other way I can access the information I need.
If you wish to improve your own translations and have time on your hands, you can reread your own translations about 2 weeks after you finished them. That way, you will have completely forgotten them, and you can see if any improvements can be made. If you wanted to improve your proofreading skills to proofread someone else's translations, then I don't have any advice. I simply don't offer proofreading. The quality of the translation can be very poor, I could end up working far too much for too little pay (that's my main concern) and I don't wish to get involved in any sticky situations with any other translators, agencies etc. Why create office politics? ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Brian Mossop's book may help | Oct 5, 2012 |
Brian Mossop:
Revising and Editing for Translators
St. Jerome Publishing: Translation practices explained
and one of these two numbers,
ISBN-10: 1-900650-96-7
ISBN-13: 978-1-900650-96-0
It includes detailed coverage of a widerange of topics including:
·copyediting
·stylistic editing
·structural editing
·checking for consistency
·use of computer aids
·revision parameters
·degrees of revision
... See more Brian Mossop:
Revising and Editing for Translators
St. Jerome Publishing: Translation practices explained
and one of these two numbers,
ISBN-10: 1-900650-96-7
ISBN-13: 978-1-900650-96-0
It includes detailed coverage of a widerange of topics including:
·copyediting
·stylistic editing
·structural editing
·checking for consistency
·use of computer aids
·revision parameters
·degrees of revision
·self-revision
·quality assessment
It is definitely a book you need to read and possibly re-read a chapter at a time, and needs discussing and digesting, but it is moderately priced and you can read it in your own time if you can't get to a course. ▲ Collapse
| | | | RitaMackay
Portugal
Local time: 20:51
Engelska till Portugisiska
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Samuel Murray
Nederländerna
Local time: 21:51
Medlem (2006)
Engelska till Afrikaans
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| Aah, so you want to learn copy-editing | Oct 5, 2012 |
Paul Carmichael wrote:
I am not working in the "publishing" industry, with it's writing sticks etc., I am a translator who is sent word/pdf files etc. to translate or proofread.
Perhaps you're not aware, so forgive me if I say something you already know, but the word "proofreading" is a much abused word that means different things to different people. The proofreading meant in the current course probably doesn't relate to the types of language errors or translation errors that agencies want their "proofreaders" to catch.
What you want to learn, I think, is copy-editing... not proofreading. I understand that many agencies, clients and translators use the term "proofreading" to mean copy-editing, but I think you should search for a course that teaches copy-editing specifically (and a clue would be that such a course would be more language-specific than a proofreading course).
Samuel
| | | | Paul Carmichael
Spanien
Local time: 21:51
Spanska till Engelska
TOPIC STARTER
Samuel Murray wrote:
Perhaps you're not aware, so forgive me if I say something you already know, but the word "proofreading" is a much abused word that means different things to different people. The proofreading meant in the current course probably doesn't relate to the types of language errors or translation errors that agencies want their "proofreaders" to catch.
What you want to learn, I think, is copy-editing... not proofreading. I understand that many agencies, clients and translators use the term "proofreading" to mean copy-editing, but I think you should search for a course that teaches copy-editing specifically (and a clue would be that such a course would be more language-specific than a proofreading course).
Samuel
I know what you mean, but like it or not, this industry does employ the term "proofreading" to mean something different than it's traditional meaning. Call it what you like, but it's checking and correcting at the end of the day - normally employing the "track changes" feature of MSWord and now Trados.
I'm currently looking for a course aimed at translators. There must be some out there that would suit. What I'm largely after is a qualification to be able to boast about
Thanks for your comments. All taken in. But we're living in a revolution.
| | | | Paul Carmichael
Spanien
Local time: 21:51
Spanska till Engelska
TOPIC STARTER | Reading up on it now... | Oct 5, 2012 |
Samuel Murray wrote:
Perhaps you're not aware, so forgive me if I say something you already know, but the word "proofreading" is a much abused word that means different things to different people. The proofreading meant in the current course probably doesn't relate to the types of language errors or translation errors that agencies want their "proofreaders" to catch.
What you want to learn, I think, is copy-editing... not proofreading. I understand that many agencies, clients and translators use the term "proofreading" to mean copy-editing, but I think you should search for a course that teaches copy-editing specifically (and a clue would be that such a course would be more language-specific than a proofreading course).
Samuel
Currently reading this:
http://www.sfep.org.uk/pub/faqs/fedit.asp
| | | | Nicole Schnell
USA
Local time: 12:51
Engelska till Tyska
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In memoriam | Great article! | Oct 5, 2012 |
Paul Carmichael wrote:
Samuel Murray wrote:
Perhaps you're not aware, so forgive me if I say something you already know, but the word "proofreading" is a much abused word that means different things to different people. The proofreading meant in the current course probably doesn't relate to the types of language errors or translation errors that agencies want their "proofreaders" to catch.
What you want to learn, I think, is copy-editing... not proofreading. I understand that many agencies, clients and translators use the term "proofreading" to mean copy-editing, but I think you should search for a course that teaches copy-editing specifically (and a clue would be that such a course would be more language-specific than a proofreading course).
Samuel
Currently reading this:
http://www.sfep.org.uk/pub/faqs/fedit.asp
It should be featured in the ProZ.com article section. It also should be sent to the majority of PMs all over the world.
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Paul Carmichael
Spanien
Local time: 21:51
Spanska till Engelska
TOPIC STARTER
Nicole Schnell wrote:
It should be featured in the ProZ.com article section. It also should be sent to the majority of PMs all over the world.
I just went to change my proz profile ie; remove proofreading, but the category is called "Editing/proofreading". Perhaps that should be changed?
| | | | Samuel Murray
Nederländerna
Local time: 21:51
Medlem (2006)
Engelska till Afrikaans
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| It has been requested | Oct 5, 2012 |
Paul Carmichael wrote:
I just went to change my proz profile ie; remove proofreading, but the category is called "Editing/proofreading". Perhaps that should be changed?
This change has been requested and it has been denied. ProZ.com does not believe in the difference between translation checking, copy-editing, typographic proofreading and galley proofreading.
| | | | Carolyn Yohn
USA
Local time: 12:51
Franska till Engelska
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| young translator weighs in | Oct 5, 2012 |
Paul Carmichael wrote:
Nicole Schnell wrote:
- The young translator considers quality a thing of the last century because he is, like, totally superb.
So let's not change this thread into having a pop at these "totally superb" translators that refuse to take courses, eh?
I'm a young translator, and I took one of these courses, and have been advocating that all translators look into learning this skill.
I should clarify, too, that these reason this particular course looked questionable to me was that the important section--the how-to-approach-the-task part---is limited to a brief section of the introduction only. For a translator, who already is familiar with language nuances and potential weaknesses in his/her own writing, it's more important to learn methods for improving accuracy and efficiency. It's like the difference between learning your source language grammar by rote and learning how to take apart a text to translate it well.
In any case, I'm glad we've convinced you to keep hunting for a good class in your area, whatever the format may be. Good luck, and happy translating!
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