| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | To offer or not to offer legal translations? Thread poster: Marc Bjørnholt
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Marc Bjørnholt
Sweden
Local time: 14:48
Member (2022)
English to Danish
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Hi, I hope that I posted this in the correct place.
I am a new translator with a degree in languages aspiring to go full time. To be honest, I am having a bit of an identity issue, and I find it hard to decide what is within the scope of my ability, and what is not. Because the legal assignments vary wildly, e.g. some are doable but others are very hard and take so long so complete that it's just not feasible from a financial standpoint. So it's hard for me to decide whether or not ... See more Hi, I hope that I posted this in the correct place.
I am a new translator with a degree in languages aspiring to go full time. To be honest, I am having a bit of an identity issue, and I find it hard to decide what is within the scope of my ability, and what is not. Because the legal assignments vary wildly, e.g. some are doable but others are very hard and take so long so complete that it's just not feasible from a financial standpoint. So it's hard for me to decide whether or not I should offer them at all.
Given what I have written, should I advertise in my CV and Proz that I offer them or not? Is there anyone who has run into this before, and how did you solve it? I am really looking for feedback, especially from someone who is a little more experienced if possible. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Lingua 5B 
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Local time: 14:48
Member (2009)
English to Croatian
+ ...
- as a beginner, you will probably find many translations “take long” to complete, not just legal ones (it’s normal until you become faster)
- you can advertize them if you are OK with a slower earning pace
- re. how viable and they are, that should be answered by someone in the same language pair as yours
- re. your preferences, we can’t answer that for you. If your have fields you are naturally interested in, that may be a good place to start
I think you ... See more - as a beginner, you will probably find many translations “take long” to complete, not just legal ones (it’s normal until you become faster)
- you can advertize them if you are OK with a slower earning pace
- re. how viable and they are, that should be answered by someone in the same language pair as yours
- re. your preferences, we can’t answer that for you. If your have fields you are naturally interested in, that may be a good place to start
I think you already answered all of your questions in your very post. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Mihai Badea (X)
Luxembourg
Local time: 14:48
English to Romanian
+ ...
| Business and law are interrelated | Feb 4, 2022 |
Your information suggests you specialize in business texts. If that is the case, it will be very difficult for you to avoid legal concepts and terminology.
Translation studies are just the begining. You will need to continue studying if you are to offer competent translations to high-end clients.
The types of documents you wish to translate should guide your selection of books and courses you will read and follow.
Study passport is not a concept we translat... See more Your information suggests you specialize in business texts. If that is the case, it will be very difficult for you to avoid legal concepts and terminology.
Translation studies are just the begining. You will need to continue studying if you are to offer competent translations to high-end clients.
The types of documents you wish to translate should guide your selection of books and courses you will read and follow.
Study passport is not a concept we translators are familiar with and I am not aware of any established format. It might be useful, though, to keep an up-to-date list of your specialist readings that you might want to make available for your potential clients.
In the business world, translators have a particularly bad reputation. They think we don't take ourselves seriously and claim we know very little about their world. Because of this, translation quality may suffer.
Seemingly, in the view of businesspeople, all translators are poets which, of course, from a business point of view, is not good.
There is even talk of a cult of poverty among translators. This might be an ironical reference to our rates.
Legal translation should be a productive area so if you are prepared to invest a lot of time in studying and learning, it might be worth it.
I have just learn of a new service that makes reading specialist books very affordable. It is called Perlego. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Marc Bjørnholt
Sweden
Local time: 14:48
Member (2022)
English to Danish
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER | Lawyers and legal translation | Feb 4, 2022 |
Mihai Badea wrote:
In the business world, translators have a particularly bad reputation. They think we don't take ourselves seriously and claim we know very little about their world. Because of this, translation quality may suffer.
Seemingly, in the view of businesspeople, all translators are poets which, of course, from a business point of view, is not good.
There is even talk of a cult of poverty among translators. This might be an ironical reference to our rates.
When I was studying in university to become a translator, I was told that it's better to have a linguistics degree rather than training other specialists to be good with languages and translation. But so far my experience has indicated the reverse, that a lawyer, for example, may be able to become better at legal translation than those of us with an MA in languages.
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Mihai Badea (X)
Luxembourg
Local time: 14:48
English to Romanian
+ ...
| Linguist vs other specialist who does translation | Feb 4, 2022 |
Marc Bjørnholt wrote:
When I was studying in university to become a translator, I was told that it's better to have a linguistics degree rather than training other specialists to be good with languages and translation. But so far my experience has indicated the reverse, that a lawyer, for example, may be able to become better at legal translation than those of us with an MA in languages.
This is an interesting topic.
Relevant fact: DGT, one of the largest translation organisation, does not require a degree in translation or linguistics. Any degree will do.
The assumption seems to be that specialist knowledge is more important than a linguistic background.
The truth is that, for highly technical texts, if you are not very familiar with the field, your linguistic training will not help you much. Instead, if you are a specialist in the specific field and have some linguistic skills, you might be able to do a quite decent job.
It is possible that training for translators can still be improved so that it better satisfies the market needs.
| | | | | Marc, your experience is correct | Feb 5, 2022 |
Marc Bjørnholt wrote:
But so far my experience has indicated the reverse, that a lawyer, for example, may be able to become better at legal translation than those of us with an MA in languages.
Absolutely. For highly specialised translations, a degree or work experience in the subject field is much more important than a degree in linguistics. In addition to that, many degrees in linguistics are oriented towards the academic environment rather than practical translation, and bring relatively little value to translators (certainly less than growing up bilingual).
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Don’t you have sworn translators in Sweden? Countries that have sworn translators usually require a rather stringent examination, which qualifies you to translate all legal documents. When I started out in Belgium in 1985 I offered my services to a sworn translator and that’s how I took my first steps translating diplomas, birth and death certificates, driving licenses, divorce papers…
| | | | Oriol Vives (X)
Spain
Local time: 14:48
English to Catalan
+ ...
| Legal is all about language. | Feb 5, 2022 |
If you like linguistics, the logic in language, how to go from A to B using that road or that other road, legal formulaes, how to put it and being expressly precise, concise and knowing the inside out of a language and its myriad of forms of expression, go legal.
If you find this boring, that it requires too much time, expense or effort to learn -it does for even the most gifted-, or if you think there are shortcuts and that you can take to build the Titanic in three days instead of... See more If you like linguistics, the logic in language, how to go from A to B using that road or that other road, legal formulaes, how to put it and being expressly precise, concise and knowing the inside out of a language and its myriad of forms of expression, go legal.
If you find this boring, that it requires too much time, expense or effort to learn -it does for even the most gifted-, or if you think there are shortcuts and that you can take to build the Titanic in three days instead of five years, then don't go for it.
That's my advice as a linguist.
If this approach doesn't convince you, let me put it this way: do you find the legal language enjoyable? If you do, then do it. If you don't, than don't. You will spend a lot of time going through very narrow passages, so make sure you are comfortable with that before proceeding. ▲ Collapse
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Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 15:48
Member
English to Turkish
| Better Call Saul! | Feb 5, 2022 |
It looks like you have to make up your mind first. If I understood you correctly, part of your hesitation is due to the fact that you have no previous legal translation experience.
If that's the case, let me give you the best bit of advice you'll ever hear in your life (I normally charge $99.99 for those on my online course): translation is all about experience. You learn on the job while researching, looking for specific words/terms/concepts etc.
They probably won't teach you in an... See more It looks like you have to make up your mind first. If I understood you correctly, part of your hesitation is due to the fact that you have no previous legal translation experience.
If that's the case, let me give you the best bit of advice you'll ever hear in your life (I normally charge $99.99 for those on my online course): translation is all about experience. You learn on the job while researching, looking for specific words/terms/concepts etc.
They probably won't teach you in an undergraduate Swedish law program about 'US circuit courts', 'UK Queen's Bench Division', differences/nuances between a 'claim', 'lawsuit', 'proceedings', 'Scottish sheriff courts', 'Particulars of Claim (to follow) etc. etc., and much less their meanings and applications in your native Swedish (linguistically and legally). You learn those things while translating stuff, looking up and reading 'Cookie Policies', 'Privacy Policies', 'Corporate Newsletters' of different companies and familiarizing yourself with the language, style, tone, terminology used. The Kudoz section of various other language pairs is also helpful.
If you're interested in doing legal translations, playing up and making more of what little legal translation experience you have in your CV and adding some white lies here and there, while you're at it, should help I'd imagine (how will they check all that?). But adding a Law Degree from the University of American Samoa would definitely raise a red flag, so avoid doing that.
Decide on whether or not you want to do legal translations at all and get inspired by Saul Goodman, who learned his trade from scratch, on the job, while doing the actual work. Failing that, you can always go back to doing 'gaming translations'. I hope you won't hesitate then whether or not to play every single game on PlayStation before going into gaming translations. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Just say yes (or no) | Feb 5, 2022 |
Say you translate legal but turn down any jobs you don’t like the look of. That’s what everyone does to some extent in their preferred fields.
Oh, and proofread your website 😉
| | | | | Lying about experience | Feb 5, 2022 |
Baran Keki wrote:
If you're interested in doing legal translations, playing up and making more of what little legal translation experience you have in your CV and adding some white lies here and there, while you're at it, should help I'd imagine (how will they check all that?). But adding a Law Degree from the University of American Samoa would definitely raise a red flag, so avoid doing that.
This is dangerous and unethical advice. Your customers may not be able to check up on your experience, but they will probably know if you do an absolutely terrible job - which is likely, if you blunder into a field assuming that you will pick it up as you go.
A better idea would be to get a law text book and do some reading so that you at least have an idea of when you are straying into dangerous territory.
Aside from the idea that lying about your experience is a good idea I'm sceptical about how much real learning happens when researching translations. It has always seemed to me that the knowledge acquired in this way is scattered and shallow compared to learning a subject thoroughly and from the ground up as you do when studying a good course. That's my experience anyway, having tried both approaches.
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 15:48
Member
English to Turkish
| Agree to disagree | Feb 5, 2022 |
Rachel Waddington wrote:
Aside from the idea that lying about your experience is a good idea
If you read my post carefully (or weren't conditioned to interpret it in a certain way) you'd see that the main 'idea' I suggested was that 'translation is all about experience' and that he needs to start from from somewhere and learn things by doing them.
Rachel Waddington wrote:
This is dangerous and unethical advice. Your customers may not be able to check up on your experience, but they will probably know if you do an absolutely terrible job
I was under the impression that the OP possessed a certain level of intelligence and good sense not to lie his way through getting legal translation jobs and know that certain jobs would be above his paygrade.
I merely suggested that he exaggerate/embellish his legal translation experience a little bit and add a few untrue statements (nothing significant like saying 'I worked in law office in Sweden for 4 years'). So your interpretation of 'making more of', 'playing up', 'white lies' are 'dangerous and unethical advice' and 'lying about your experience is a good idea'? Wow! Besides I was mostly being sarcastic about it. Though, I must say I'm not at all surprised that the sarcasm is lost on you.
Rachel Waddington wrote:
I'm sceptical about how much real learning happens when researching translations. It has always seemed to me that the knowledge acquired in this way is scattered and shallow compared to learning a subject thoroughly and from the ground up as you do when studying a good course.
I started out as an in-house translator in 2007, and my very first assignments were legal projects (contracts, company registers, trade registry journals etc.). Sure, I did a terrible job at first, but having worked at that agency for nearly 10 years, I got to learn from senior translators' works and by translating similar texts on a daily, weekly basis. Over the 10 years, I accumulated a fair bit of knowledge and experience, and now I know my way around the British and American legal language and I know how to localize them into my target language.
Of course this 10 years' worth of knowledge and experience are 'scattered and shallow' to you! I should've gone to a law school for 4 years, and then worked in a law office for another 4 years (while completing a part-time Dip Trans working at the office) before even considering freelance translation and asked for advice on Proz forums from the likes of you.
Anyways, let's agree to disagree.
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| My training is from the last century ... but here are some thoughts | Feb 5, 2022 |
Welcome to Proz.com
As you work from Danish to English and English to Danish, I can add a few comments to the advice above.
I would play down your inexperience rather than exaggerating what experience you have. Exploit the truth as far as you can, but no white lies! (If you cannot see the difference, then drop the idea of translating law.  )
Denmark went against the stream and changed their ... See more Welcome to Proz.com
As you work from Danish to English and English to Danish, I can add a few comments to the advice above.
I would play down your inexperience rather than exaggerating what experience you have. Exploit the truth as far as you can, but no white lies! (If you cannot see the difference, then drop the idea of translating law. )
Denmark went against the stream and changed their system of sworn translators in 2015.
Those who were already Translatører, which until then was a protected title, could continue to use their credentials. I never did qualify - long story - but became a Chartered Linguist accredited by the CIoL in London. (I am an English native with the old ED, the overbygning til korrespondent, which was phased out at the turn of the century. I took a couple of extra modules in Law with a Cand. Ling. Merc. class in Aarhus, so I have roughly the same linguistic training as they have in law. No interpreting, no thesis, but otherwise a very similar training.)
Unlike a lot of colleagues who specialise in law, I do not have any official training in law, but I have studied on my own.
I do not know how my training compares with yours, which is far more recent, but I take on some law.
I read general English law, and business and family law, and take on the fairly routine jobs - leasing, and rentals, employment contracts, sales and service, sales agencies - but watch out for service contracts where large sections are technical details of the product, IT or whatever - if you can´t manage them, then turn down the job!
I suggest you contact the Translatørforbund in Denmark and ask for up-to-date advice.
http://www.netvaerksportalen.dk/dansk-translatoerforbund
I don´t know a lot about the Swedish SFÖ, but what I do know is positive - contact them too, as you live in Sweden. Consider attending the conference in Karlstadt - I understand that a lot of useful networking goes on.
https://sfoe.se/en/481-2/events/
I get the impression that there are not too many people around who can read the more convoluted forms of Danish legal language and render them in English. (I only translate from Danish into English.) But I am past retiring age ...
As you are not a native speaker of English, you may need to find a native proofreader (no, sorry, not me, I don´t do it any more!) But some Danes at least write excellent legal English. It is always best to keep it simple, as the Plain Language Association advocates!
Best of luck! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 15:48
Member
English to Turkish
Christine Andersen wrote:
play down your inexperience rather than exaggerating what experience you have. Exploit the truth as far as you can, but no white lies!
That's a lot closer to what I had in mind! It seems, in my attempt at sarcasm, I couldn't express myself better.
I only hope that the OP didn't conclude from my post that 'lying is a good thing' and didn't regard my post as an 'unethical advice' like certain people did.
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Baran Keki wrote:
I merely suggested that he exaggerate/embellish his legal translation experience a little bit and add a few untrue statements (nothing significant like saying 'I worked in law office in Sweden for 4 years'). So your interpretation of 'making more of', 'playing up', 'white lies' are 'dangerous and unethical advice' and 'lying about your experience is a good idea'? Wow! Besides I was mostly being sarcastic about it. Though, I must say I'm not at all surprised that the sarcasm is lost on you.
If what you meant to advise the OP was to write his marketing in a way that highlights and makes the most of the experience he already has, then I absolutely agree with you. Lies, white or otherwise, are a different matter. Your post did read to me as if that was what you were advocating. Apologies if that's not what you meant.
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