| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Payment for a terrible translation? Thread poster: Laura Daly
|
|---|
Laura Daly 
Spain
Local time: 21:37
Member (2012)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Adrian Grant wrote:
Pay him a third of the amount he wants and, if he complains, tell him to relax and that you read your invoices quickly.
[Edited at 2013-05-30 21:00 GMT]
It has definitely crossed my mind!
| | | | Gerard de Noord
France
Local time: 21:37
Member (2003)
English to Dutch
+ ...
Laura Daly wrote: Adrian Grant wrote:
Pay him a third of the amount he wants and, if he complains, tell him to relax and that you read your invoices quickly.
[Edited at 2013-05-30 21:00 GMT] It has definitely crossed my mind!
Mine too,
LOL,
Gerard
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Spain
Local time: 20:37
Member (2007)
English
+ ...
| Telling words | May 30, 2013 |
Laura Daly wrote:
100% my fault? Really?! I'm a translator, not a babysitter.
I wouldn't say that outsourcing is exactly the same as babysitting (and I certainly wouldn't be an authority as I've never done either), but maybe this is your problem: maybe you aren't ready at the moment to be an outsourcer.
| | | | | Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member because it was not in line with site rule |
|
|
| Post removed: This post was hidden by a moderator or staff member for the following reason: Post referred to deleted. | neilmac
Spain
Local time: 21:37
Spanish to English
+ ...
| Who does this guy think he is? | May 31, 2013 |
A deal's a deal and so is a deadline. My reaction would be to tell him to whistle for "his" fee.
And I'd tell all and sundry, very loudly, what a unprofessional (insert epithet) this person is.
[Edited at 2013-05-31 07:20 GMT]
| | | | | I agree that it's not Laura's fault | May 31, 2013 |
When you deal with another translator, you expect some modicum of professionalism and not an iota of that was shown by the translator she outsourced the work to.
I like Adrian's idea I must say because it makes me laugh. However I think that the issue now is to minimize the time and effort, and therefore damage, that this unprofessional translator is causing to Laura and at this stage, I'm sorry to say that I think this amounts to paying the 50% of the part he translated.
... See more When you deal with another translator, you expect some modicum of professionalism and not an iota of that was shown by the translator she outsourced the work to.
I like Adrian's idea I must say because it makes me laugh. However I think that the issue now is to minimize the time and effort, and therefore damage, that this unprofessional translator is causing to Laura and at this stage, I'm sorry to say that I think this amounts to paying the 50% of the part he translated.
This is not because I think that this is deserved (personally I don't think he deserves a penny and that deadlines are sacrosanct as is professional communication) and I know that this may sound like a cop-out but if you work out the monetary difference between a third of the fee and 50% of the fee (not sure what that would be), and then work it out as an hourly rate for you, this could be a case where it makes sense to "throw money at the problem" to make it go away.
If you pay him, you will never have to deal with him again. (Don't worry, there are plenty of translators out there who would never DREAM of acting in this way so I'm sure that this is an isolated case and you'll be able to outsource plenty of work and have mutually beneficial collaborations in the future). If you have long drawn out arguments with him about what is owed, this will continue to take up your valuable time and perhaps end up costing you more than you save.
I think that, given that what has happened has happened, it's time to mitigate damage and this will boil down to a number crunching exercise in the end. Remember that your time is money and that stressing about something will take up space in your brain that could be used for something more fulfilling.
All my sympathies and good luck! ▲ Collapse
| | | | Tatty
Local time: 21:37
Spanish to English
+ ...
The deadline was sacrosanct until it had passed. To avoid payment you should have cancelled the translation at that point. As it stands, you waited for 8 hours to receive the work. This unavoidably means that you are liable for some payment. The translation couldn't have been fully unusable, even in the short example containing some 6 words, you only disagreed with the translation of one of them. Buyer beware is the usual approach. Personally, I would have thought a 50% discount to be a sensible... See more The deadline was sacrosanct until it had passed. To avoid payment you should have cancelled the translation at that point. As it stands, you waited for 8 hours to receive the work. This unavoidably means that you are liable for some payment. The translation couldn't have been fully unusable, even in the short example containing some 6 words, you only disagreed with the translation of one of them. Buyer beware is the usual approach. Personally, I would have thought a 50% discount to be a sensible arrangement. Outsourcing is ideal when everything goes well but you have to take the rough with the smooth. You outsourced work to translator whose work you were not familiar with, this was the big mistake that you made.
P.S. The garage would be fully liable for the incompetence of their worker.
Personally, I would have asked him to send what he had at the deadline.
[Editado a las 2013-05-31 11:44 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | |
|
|
|
Schtroumpf
Local time: 21:37
German to French
+ ...
Nonchalant treatment of deadlines appears quite common in some countries but it is an essential element of a contract to deliver the agreed product on the agreed deadline, isn't it? No more, no less.
If the contract was breached by your partner, he is no longer entitled to the full counterpart either. One third of the agreed price seems very genereous already, considering the prejudice (probable loss of a new customer).
I am amazed at the number of people in this threa... See more Nonchalant treatment of deadlines appears quite common in some countries but it is an essential element of a contract to deliver the agreed product on the agreed deadline, isn't it? No more, no less.
If the contract was breached by your partner, he is no longer entitled to the full counterpart either. One third of the agreed price seems very genereous already, considering the prejudice (probable loss of a new customer).
I am amazed at the number of people in this thread who think very naturally that it is the outsourcer's fault if her professional translation partner fails to deliver quantity and quality on time. Of course you should always keep your time margin when outsourcing. Of course experience may be harsh but useful. But no, sorry, a professional translator just would not accept the order if it is beyond his capacities.
By the way, people talk about "jobs" on Proz, but as a non-native English speaker, the word sounds non-professional to me. I would prefer "order" or "contract". ▲ Collapse
| | | | ibz
Local time: 21:37
Member (2007)
English to German
+ ...
| About the importance of deadlines | May 31, 2013 |
Thank you, Schroumpf, for your posting! I already thought I'm the only one who thinks that keeping deadlines is an essential part of the our business.
If I translate a press release, for example, my client needs my translation at a given time - not 8 hours later. In my experience (and with my clients), many translations delivered too late can no longer be used and are therefore "worthless".
In Laura's case, I would actually be tempted to refuse any payment.
| | | | | Very helpful ones | May 31, 2013 |
Laura Daly wrote:
Lots of helpful opinions on here, thanks to all! (Some less helpful ones, 100% my fault? Really?! I'm a translator, not a babysitter.)
This is something I have seen many times in fora: if you do not agree with the poster's stance, your opinion is not useful.
Sometimes what is useful to you is something you don't really want to hear. Someone who says you made a mistake does not mean to harm you, but help you stay away from future and bigger harm.
I am pretty sure that before you buy a used car you do a test drive or even ask your mechanic to go with you to get a trusted opinion. Of if you plan to sign a lease for a flat you go to see it first, open and close the taps, roll the blinds up and down, and check for bus stops nearby. Or when you sign an important agreement you read it carefully or even take it to your lawyer. All these are natural precautions for every normal person, but you feel that examining and testing a freelancer before entrusting any work to him is running a kindergarten?
Crashing is something that happens when you drive too fast and you do not have full control of the situation.
| | | | Laura Daly
Spain
Local time: 21:37
Member (2012)
Spanish to English
+ ...
TOPIC STARTER
Tomás Cano Binder, CT wrote:
you feel that examining and testing a freelancer before entrusting any work to him is running a kindergarten?
No, I wasn't referring to hiring the translator, but rather to checking up on him repeatedly before the deadline.
I have definitely discovered that I need to be more thorough when outsourcing, I normally rely on a specific group of colleagues that I know personally, but none were available this time.
Does anyone know if there is any kind of official industry/association guidelines for this kind of situation?
| | |
|
|
|
Irene S.
Local time: 20:37
Member (2003)
English to Romanian
+ ...
| Not Laura's fault! | May 31, 2013 |
Dear Laura,
I am so sorry you got yourself involved in such a bad situation. I do not agree with my colleagues who say it was entirely your fault, on the contrary: it is the translator's fault! Do not get fooled by a translator's WWA! Note that many of our clients do not speak our target languages and their comments and appreciations may be related only to following the instructions, using the glossaries, meeting the deadlines, delivering a clean file, keeping the original layout, e... See more Dear Laura,
I am so sorry you got yourself involved in such a bad situation. I do not agree with my colleagues who say it was entirely your fault, on the contrary: it is the translator's fault! Do not get fooled by a translator's WWA! Note that many of our clients do not speak our target languages and their comments and appreciations may be related only to following the instructions, using the glossaries, meeting the deadlines, delivering a clean file, keeping the original layout, etc. They usually cannot tell whether the translation flows well or the grammar is perfect.
Last year I had to proofread the file delivered by a "very appreciated" fellow. Guess what: it was full of mistakes, misinterpretations, bad style and grammar. I wondered how was it possible for a "pro" to deliver such crap...
The ideal actions when we outsource work would be:
- we send the file(s) to the translator on Monday (the deadline being on Friday afternoon). We specifically ask him/her to deliver, say, 1,000 words on Monday evening or Tuesday morning the latest, so that we could check the quality, style, grammar and so on. If s/he does not meet our standards, at least we have plenty of time to find someone else or ask the client for an extension.
- always allow one or two days before our final deadline, meaning that if our deadline is on Friday, we need to have the translation on Wednesday evening or Thursday morning.
- always proofread the entire translation before sending it to the client
- always send our own PO in which we state very clear the word count, the rate and the deadline, highlighting that if the deadline is not met, we will not pay in full. ▲ Collapse
| | | |
Laura Daly wrote: Tomás wrote:
you feel that examining and testing a freelancer before entrusting any work to him is running a kindergarten?
No, I wasn't referring to hiring the translator, but rather to checking up on him repeatedly before the deadline.
My confusion. I sincerely apologise, and in fact agree with you on this (that we should not need to chase people around and people should be responsible).
When we got our ISO 9001/EN 15038 certifications we started using a standard form to send to translators along with the order. I think it is a good idea to have such a form and start using it systematically. It should contain a description of the work, wordcounts (or agreed hours if per-hour), the rate, and a clear indication of the date and hour of delivery.
Although our form does not contain it, I reckon it would do no harm to add a couple of lines about the procedure to be followed / possible penalties / liquidated damages in case of late deliveries or poor quality, and about your right to cancel the job at any time if you so wish, with payment of the completed part only.
And I agree with the colleague, with any new person you work with, or if you work on a new topic with a person you know from some other job, it makes sense to ask for a sample of the job (specifying it so in the order form) way in advance so that, if things go wrong, you can straighten the situation in due time.
| | | | 564354352 (X)
Denmark
Local time: 21:37
Danish to English
+ ...
| Can you legitimately refuse payment? I don't think so... | May 31, 2013 |
Just to get back to the OP's original question, i.e. whether she can legitimately refuse to pay for this terrible translation. My guess would be 'no'.
You chose the translator and asked him to do a job for you, he did a job, which was clearly not up to your standards, but that, I am sorry to say, is your problem. I agree with those who stress here that it is essential only to contract people who you are certain can do the job to the standard you require.
I sympathise ... See more Just to get back to the OP's original question, i.e. whether she can legitimately refuse to pay for this terrible translation. My guess would be 'no'.
You chose the translator and asked him to do a job for you, he did a job, which was clearly not up to your standards, but that, I am sorry to say, is your problem. I agree with those who stress here that it is essential only to contract people who you are certain can do the job to the standard you require.
I sympathise with your dilemma and agree 100 % that this translator is a disgrace to our profession, but in the end, you should have worked this out before offering a job to him.
Those of you who know the Catherine Tate show may remember the office worker who thinks she is capable of any challenge, so whenever something needs doing and no one can be found to take on the job, she says "I can do that". I love the scene where she takes on interpretation into six different languages that she clearly does not speak. But she interprets with confidence!! The story doesn't tell whether she gets sacked after this, but her boss had clearly not checked ahead of time whether she was actually able to perform the task, so in the end, it was his fault.
In this case, I'd say: Accept the 50 % discount, learn from the experience and leave it behind you. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Payment for a terrible translation? | Anycount & Translation Office 3000 | Translation Office 3000
Translation Office 3000 is an advanced accounting tool for freelance translators and small agencies. TO3000 easily and seamlessly integrates with the business life of professional freelance translators.
More info » |
| | CafeTran Espresso | You've never met a CAT tool this clever!
Translate faster & easier, using a sophisticated CAT tool built by a translator / developer.
Accept jobs from clients who use Trados, MemoQ, Wordfast & major CAT tools.
Download and start using CafeTran Espresso -- for free
Buy now! » |
|
| | | | X Sign in to your ProZ.com account... | | | | | |
Login to reply/comment 
Translation news
