Nov 30, 2022 17:13
1 yr ago
31 viewers *
Spanish term

ávido de ser/querer/saber,

Spanish to English Other Philosophy Academic
Running through the academic piece on ageing, longevity once again. Have posted this sentence before for a different term. This time I'm double-checking whether folk think "querer" means "love" or "want" here. It had been translated (not by me) as "want", but I think most likely "love"?

Cualquiera que fuera la duración máxima de la vida humana, nos parecería, primero, natural, y, segundo, insuficiente, siendo el hombre como es: escindido, dual, contradictorio, inseguro, agónico, ávido de ser/querer/saber, impotente, insatisfecho e insaciable.

I'm thinking of translating "ávido de ser/querer/saber" as "thirsty for existence/love/knowledge" which is a bit of a departure from what it was originally. Grateful for your thoughts.

Discussion

Toni Castano Dec 3, 2022:
Ávido de querer Definitely not sure about what the author means in this case by "querer". This verb has basically two meanings in Spanish, "to want/wish" and "to love" (similar, but NOT quite the same as "amar"). Which one of the two makes the most sense here? I just don´t know. Domini, pay attention to ALL the surrounding context. But even doing it so, I sense it´s going to be a difficult task to decipher what is meant.
O G V Dec 1, 2022:
you should try his poetry No es tan conocida como su faceta de pensador ni la de "nivolista" pero su obra poética es de una enjundia y profundidad conmovedoras. Una figura deslumbrante, padre de nuestro pensamiento moderno, pasó como un cometa por una época muy importante de/para España (caída o desastre del imperio y fracaso o aniquilación de la segunda república).
Sus sonetos (con rimas muy peculiares y rebuscadas) suelen tener un aire muy filosófico.
Dejo aquí dos, uno a Nietszche (por el tema) y otro que está entre los que me parecen más magistrales.
A Nietszche https://www.poesi.as/muj0300.htm
Mi cielo (Días de ayer) https://www.poesi.as/muj0258.htm
(el primer verso del segundo terceto debe acabar en "la partida").
Domini Lucas (asker) Nov 30, 2022:
OGV re Unamuno could I trouble you poss cite any relevant Unamuno online translations if you have them at your fingertips? or signpost me. I´m about to go looking for some of his other quotes in English having failed to pinpoint them the other day, and deadline is approaching now.
O G V Nov 30, 2022:
buscar cómo se han traducido las reflexiones de Unamuno (o los comentarios) sobre querer, amar y conocer puede ser muy ilustrativo :)
Domini Lucas (asker) Nov 30, 2022:
re ávido grateful to you all for confirming that I should stick with "eager" and the verb forms which were there originally. That´s really helpful. I´ll wait a little longer to see what others think re querer. Huge thanks to all who have commented thus far. :-)

Proposed translations

+5
6 mins
Selected

eager to be/love/know

Given that the adjective "ávido" implies a desire that goes above and beyond mere wanting (in which case "to want" might have been the adequate translation), I think the better translation is "to love".

Definition of ávido: "Ansioso, codicioso"

Alternatively: "Que siente un fuerte e intenso deseo de conseguir o hacer algo"

Also, the context with words like "insaciable" makes me think something more intense than mere wanting is required.
Example sentence:

Que siente un fuerte e intenso deseo de conseguir o hacer algo

Ansioso, codicioso

Note from asker:
Thank you very much for your input. I hope you are keeping well. :-)
Peer comment(s):

agree philgoddard : Otherwise it would effectively be saying "wanting to want".
24 mins
Precisely
agree patinba
1 hr
agree Muriel Vasconcellos
8 hrs
agree Simone Taylor
15 hrs
agree Carol Gullidge
1 day 1 hr
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "In the end I went with this one. "Be" went with the rest of the text best and came up more frequently when I was reading around. I am not 100% sure it means just "love" and not "want and love", but two options didn't flow and as one "love" seems much more likely (v helpful to have colleague agreement on that. Thank you!). Though I would have preferred 'for' love if it had been easier to fit in. All input was very helpful, even if not chosen in the end. Thank you all so very much. Really. :-)"
3 mins

eager to learn

😊

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Note added at 1 hr (2022-11-30 18:26:41 GMT)
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To answer your question, Domini: eager is a synonym of avid.
Actually, in your context, I would change it to eager to live, as an aging person can still be eager to live, which would encompass being, loving and learning.
Note from asker:
Thank you so much for your input. Could you tell me why you think that, as it was one I wasn´t expecting.
Thanks very much Katharina. I was asking about "learn" rather than eager. Sorry if I wasn´t clear. :-)
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12 mins
Spanish term (edited): ávido de ser/querer/saber

eager to be/to want & to love/to know

la disquisición podría llevarnos horas
querer es sinónimo de amar pero se asocia a voluntad, deseo (wish, tb)
es la fórmula típica de la declaración de amor (te quiero; te amo sería muy poético)

pero aquí parece ir más por el sentido de desear, pretender algo

creo que lo mejor es usar dos verbos porque en inglés no hay una equivalencia perfecta

querer, amar, conocer son conceptos muy unamunianos
pero el tiempo no es de lo que sobra ahora ;)


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Note added at 2 hrs (2022-11-30 19:18:03 GMT)
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https://www.google.com/search?q=Unamuno "querer" &...


La tragedia del amor unamunianohttps://revistas.ucm.es › ASEM › article › viewFile
PDF
«Amar al prójimo es querer que sea como yo, que sea ... el ansia de conocer la ciencia del bien y el mal lleva al hombre a la sen- sualidad.

Vida y ser en el pensamiento de Unamunohttps://revistas.usal.es › article › download
PDF
de WD Johnson · Citado por 14 — siones un «conocer», es decir, un vivir que infunde senti(Ü) en lo vivido. Véase ... «Amar-dice Unamuno-es querer eternizarse en lo ama- do:. (81).

DEL SENTIMIENTO TRÁGICO DE LA VIDAhttps://web.seducoahuila.gob.mx › biblioweb › upload
PDF
de M de Unamuno · Citado por 19 — sobre todo a querer conocer aquello que a vivir, y a vivir siempre, conduzca? A ... amar a la pobre estrella que desaparecerá del cielo un día, ...
253 páginas

Individualidad y personalidad en la filosofía de Miguel de ...http://www.scielo.org.co › scielo
de JR Ramírez Valencia · 2013 · Citado por 8 — Amar es querer que sea como yo, que sea otro yo, es decir, es querer borrar la divisoria ... en nuestro conocer, una dependencia de nuestra existencia».

Niebla Miguel de Unamuno Capítulo cuarto - Antorcha.nethttp://www.antorcha.net › biblioteca_virtual › literatura
Conocer es perdonar, dicen. No, perdonar es conocer. ... Y para amar algo, ¿qué basta? ... Busca una mujer de gobierno, que sepa querer ... y gobernarte.

Los libros de viajes de Miguel de Unamunohttps://www.cervantesvirtual.com › obra-visor › html
Conocer y amar son verbos necesariamente recíprocos en el caso que tratamos, ... Sin querer detenerme más de lo necesario en la obra referida al exilio ...

Diario íntimo / Miguel de Unamunohttps://www.cervantesvirtual.com › obra-visor › html
No rebatas nunca las opiniones ajenas porque eso es querer aparecer más fuerte que ... Sólo por Cristo y a través de él podemos pensar y amar al Dios Padre, ...

Ideario de Miguel de Unamuno - Hispanotecahttp://hispanoteca.eu › Ideario de Miguel de Unamuno
Y afirma, a la vez, que “es eso la base efectiva de todo conocer, ... erótica de Miguel de Unamuno es bastante negativa, amar es para él algo pasajero, ...


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Note added at 2 hrs (2022-11-30 19:19:09 GMT)
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Miguel de Unamuno. 150 años de su nacimiento el orden del ...https://repositorio.comillas.edu › rest › retrieve
PDF
de DELAENM EL ORDEN · Citado por 1 — es querer creer, como insistirá en otros muchos escritos. Durante los años siguientes, el intelectual ... en que hay amar para conocer, y conocer para amar.

UNAMUNO - SUMMAhttp://summa.upsa.es › high
PDF
mismo equivaldría a quererse inmortal, como amar al prójimo es si- milar a querer ser en el otro y a compadecerle por su muerte, que es también Ia mía.

LA IDEA DE DIOS EN EL PENSAMIENTO DE UNAMUNOhttp://smjegupr.net › newsite › uploads › 2020/03
PDF
de E TOLLINCHI · Citado por 1 — a querer que haya Dios, a crear a Dios, en una palabra".12 ... dada a conocer por Zubizarreta en Tras las Huellas de Unamuno. En una carta a.
13 páginas

(PDF) FE Y ESPERANZA EN UNAMUNO - Academia.eduhttps://www.academia.edu › FE_Y_ESPERANZA_EN_...
Tendríamos, pues el sentir, el conocer, el querer y el creer, o sea crear. ... la fe de un Renan, es una voluntad de saber que cambia en querer amar, ...

sus concepciones de conocimiento, verdad y cienciahttps://www.researchgate.net › publication › 364668061_...
25 oct 2022 — Palabras clave: Unamuno; educación; conocimiento; verdad; ciencia; ... querer, amar, aquello que se desea conocer y se conocerá.
Note from asker:
Thank you so much for commenting. Yes, "want" was included originally, but to my ears it sounds odd in context, which is why I ended up digging around re whether I could improve on the sentence flow. I appreciate the confirmation that the problem is that the Spanish means more than one word of ours.
I can´t thank you enough. I suspect you´ve reduced the rest of my work by half! My Unamuno books and notes were wrecked in a flooded basement years ago, and never got replaced. Only San Manuel on my bookshelves these days and I can´t even find him tonight. :-). Maybe 20223 will be the year to reread them...
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+2
2 hrs

eager/hungry for existence/love/knowledge

I think the correct way of translating this would be the way you translated it, with nouns instead of verbs, as using one or the other changes the meaning. So, instead of "eager to", it should be "eager for".

For example, saying "eager for love" is not the same as saying "eager to love". While the first one suggests the person is either eager for the existence of love, or eager to receive love, the second one suggests the person is eager to do the loving themselves.

In the Spanish version, my understanding is that the verbs "ser/querer/saber" also act as nouns.

Plus, this is how Collins translates "ávido":
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/spanish-english...
ávido
Lat Am Spain
ADJECTIVE
(= entusiasta) avid ⧫ eager (de for)
(= codicioso) greedy (de for)
Note from asker:
Thank you so much for your input and for confirming the validity of my thoughts. Have time until tomorrow to sleep on it. :-)
Peer comment(s):

agree O G V : muy atinada propuesta
21 hrs
Muchas gracias, O G V.
agree Toni Castano : Sorry, I misread your suggestion. On second thoughts, I believe this would be a reasonable approach and might be a true possibility, close to the meaning. Still, I believe the source is very ambiguous.
3 days 19 mins
Muchas gracias, Toni.
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