Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
J'ai fait entrer le loup dans la bergerie !
English translation:
I've let the wolf into the sheepfold! / I've set the fox to keep the geese!
Added to glossary by
Conor McAuley
Apr 10, 2023 21:46
1 yr ago
51 viewers *
French term
J'ai fait entrer le loup dans la bergerie!
French to English
Art/Literary
Sports / Fitness / Recreation
laisser entrer une personne dangereuse ; laisser entrer un élément dangereux
Exemples
Ce que nous disons, c'est qu'il faut prendre garde de faire entrer le loup dans la bergerie et j'aurais souhaité qu'il nous aide à garder portes et fenêtres fermées, mais c'était trop demander.
Exemples
Ce que nous disons, c'est qu'il faut prendre garde de faire entrer le loup dans la bergerie et j'aurais souhaité qu'il nous aide à garder portes et fenêtres fermées, mais c'était trop demander.
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Apr 11, 2023 19:07: Conor McAuley Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+5
10 mins
Selected
I've let the wolf into the sheepfold!
Seems to be from the Bible, John 10:1-14, but not a direct quote.
See this passage:
See https://www.bible.com/bible/105/JHN.10.1-14.NCV
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Note added at 16 mins (2023-04-10 22:03:01 GMT)
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In a French context you could talk about a mole (une taupe) with reference to World Cup 2010 (the Henry handball and all the rest of it in SA...), if readers can follow.
Keeping windows and doors closed could refer to preventing leaks by a mole, so the image could fit.
EVERYTHING from PSG leaks to L'Equipe or other media, in about 10 seconds flat, the context could be that...
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Note added at 23 mins (2023-04-10 22:10:35 GMT)
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Many sources render it as "setting the fox to keep the geese".
It looks like you're translating the expression out of context, like for a dictionary, so I think this is the best option.
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Note added at 20 hrs (2023-04-11 18:31:43 GMT)
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Proverbs found in *The Oxford Dictionary of English Proverbs*
*University of Aberdeen*
https://www.abdn.ac.uk › sll › documents › Pro...
DOC
23aCR, 029.42, 285, *He sets the fox to keep the geese.* 03AN, 019.32, 287, To take French leave. 09MO, 099.40, 288, Never friar forgot feud.
*Dorset dialect*
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Dorset_dialect
Dorset (or archaically, Dorsetshire) is a county in South West England on the ... and *Zet the fox to keep the geese similar to 'Putting the fox in charge of ...*
("Set" changes to "zet" in the local dialect.)
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Note added at 21 hrs (2023-04-11 19:02:22 GMT) Post-grading
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A Fabrice59 : Bsr = Bonsoir ?
OK, je t'en prie, il n'y a pas de souci.
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Note added at 21 hrs (2023-04-11 19:10:49 GMT) Post-grading
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Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the KudoZ... ;-)
See this passage:
See https://www.bible.com/bible/105/JHN.10.1-14.NCV
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Note added at 16 mins (2023-04-10 22:03:01 GMT)
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In a French context you could talk about a mole (une taupe) with reference to World Cup 2010 (the Henry handball and all the rest of it in SA...), if readers can follow.
Keeping windows and doors closed could refer to preventing leaks by a mole, so the image could fit.
EVERYTHING from PSG leaks to L'Equipe or other media, in about 10 seconds flat, the context could be that...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 mins (2023-04-10 22:10:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Many sources render it as "setting the fox to keep the geese".
It looks like you're translating the expression out of context, like for a dictionary, so I think this is the best option.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2023-04-11 18:31:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Proverbs found in *The Oxford Dictionary of English Proverbs*
*University of Aberdeen*
https://www.abdn.ac.uk › sll › documents › Pro...
DOC
23aCR, 029.42, 285, *He sets the fox to keep the geese.* 03AN, 019.32, 287, To take French leave. 09MO, 099.40, 288, Never friar forgot feud.
*Dorset dialect*
Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Dorset_dialect
Dorset (or archaically, Dorsetshire) is a county in South West England on the ... and *Zet the fox to keep the geese similar to 'Putting the fox in charge of ...*
("Set" changes to "zet" in the local dialect.)
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Note added at 21 hrs (2023-04-11 19:02:22 GMT) Post-grading
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A Fabrice59 : Bsr = Bonsoir ?
OK, je t'en prie, il n'y a pas de souci.
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Note added at 21 hrs (2023-04-11 19:10:49 GMT) Post-grading
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Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the KudoZ... ;-)
Note from asker:
Bsr! Merci ! Cordialement. |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Bourth
: I know it as just "... into the fold.
12 mins
|
Thanks A., that definitely works too.
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agree |
ph-b (X)
: "set(ting) the fox to keep the geese": 1st thing that came to mind but I'm not a native speaker. However, backed by R&C.
13 hrs
|
Thanks ph-b!
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neutral |
Andrew Bramhall
: Never heard " setting the fox to keep the geese" before. Geese would be strong enough to ward off the predations of foxes anyway.
19 hrs
|
I looked into in again, thought it might be a calque from German, but then found two reliable sources, referring to the Oxford Dictionary of English Proverbs and to Dorset dialect, so that's plenty much for me.
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agree |
Daryo
: nearest to the ST
20 hrs
|
Cheers Daryo!
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agree |
Anastasia Kalantzi
: It's one of our dearest Greek proverbs: ''We put the wolf to guard the sheep!''..
2 days 9 hrs
|
Thanks Anastasia!
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agree |
AllegroTrans
: Ye don't zpeek no Darzet Paddy // well yur knowz yur henz from yur cowz, oill wager that
7 days
|
I do a bit now! I'm not a fan of the P-word at all, to be honest, and especially when said with bad intentions, but I'm sure you meant no harm. Just an age thing I suppose, with genuine respect... When was the last time you heard "Jock"? Poor Scotland!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks!"
25 mins
I asked the fox to guard the hen house
One option
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
mrrafe
: This is much more common in US than the wolf/sheepfold
2 hrs
|
neutral |
Tony M
: Doesn't sound terribly natural to me in EN-GB — and especially not using 'asked'. "I set the fox..." would be more natural to my ears.
8 hrs
|
neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: "Set the fox..."
13 hrs
|
neutral |
Daryo
: this ST would be more "I let the fox into the hen house"
20 hrs
|
neutral |
Conor McAuley
: I note that my two colleagues agree with my answer here. Intellectual consistency?
20 hrs
|
+3
8 hrs
I've (really) put the cat among the pigeons
I have to admit, I'd nevere heard the EN version with a wolf before — but I believe this is the much commoner version I'm familiar, at least in EN-GB.
I think it is often used with 'really', in cases where the sense is rather rueful!
I think it is often used with 'really', in cases where the sense is rather rueful!
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
4 hrs
|
Thanks, Yvonne!
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agree |
Robert Brown
: This is the classic British English expression.
4 hrs
|
Thanks, Robert!
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disagree |
Conor McAuley
: Tony, I don't think I've ever completely disagreed with you, but this is far too conversational, tame and lacking in the grave danger and rank stupidity expressed in the French, almost whole meaning lost. / Cats hunt for fun, wolves definitely don't!!!
5 hrs
|
It accurately represents the standard translation of the source idiom; whether or not that idiom was apt in the S/T is outside our remit. I think there is a huge risk of over-interpretation here, coloured by personal choices.
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agree |
Andrew Bramhall
: Have to say , Conor's disagree seems spurious to me;
11 hrs
|
Thanks, Andrew!
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neutral |
Daryo
: wouldn't that mean "provoking a dispute" / "stirring troubles"? i.e. s.t. far milder than letting a wolf loose on a flock of sheep?
11 hrs
|
No, it's exactly the same (Biblical) idiom in EN-GB
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agree |
AllegroTrans
6 days
|
Thanks, C!
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-1
8 hrs
I have let in a wolf in sheepskin
A suggestion
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Note added at 20 hrs (2023-04-11 18:08:05 GMT)
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Modification following my peers suggestions:
I have let in a wolf in sheep’s clothing
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Note added at 20 hrs (2023-04-11 18:34:40 GMT)
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But the person who let the wolf get inside was unknowingly letting the wolf in on account of his low profile ( the sheep’s clothing)
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Note added at 20 hrs (2023-04-11 18:08:05 GMT)
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Modification following my peers suggestions:
I have let in a wolf in sheep’s clothing
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Note added at 20 hrs (2023-04-11 18:34:40 GMT)
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But the person who let the wolf get inside was unknowingly letting the wolf in on account of his low profile ( the sheep’s clothing)
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Tony M
: That's a quite different idiom: "a wolf in sheep's clothing", but the meaning is completely different.
23 mins
|
It explains how the wolf was allowed in
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neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: You got idioms mixed up. And this is not native English anyway//there is no link! 2 distinct idioms and meanings
4 hrs
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Just saw the link between the two idioms
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neutral |
Andrew Bramhall
: Has to be " in sheeps' clothing", as TM says.
11 hrs
|
I agree with you.
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disagree |
Daryo
: you're adding a layer that doesn't exist in the ST - nothing suggests in the ST some especially smart tricks played by the wolf - all I can see is dumb guardians doing a botched job of protecting the flock.
12 hrs
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Discussion
bergerie nom féminin (de berger)
1. Bâtiment pour le logement des moutons.
Synonyme : bercail
https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/bergerie/8853
so
J'ai fait entrer le loup dans la bergerie!
would literally be
I brought the wolf into the sheep barn!
An advantage of 'fold' over 'sheepfold' (and bergerie) is that it is less pastoral and can more easily take on the meaning of 'fold' as 'community, home, organization (incl. church), etc.' as in
* Her children are all away at college now, but they always return to the fold during the holidays.
* After the last election, the Republican Party tried to bring former conservatives back into the fold.
* The team offered the star forward everything they could to bring her into the fold.
* She was afraid that he'd become upset with the church and leave the fold.
* They welcomed the newest family member into the fold.
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/fold