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This trend of agencies deciding which tools the freelancer should use...
Thread poster: Alison High
Enrico C - ECLC
Enrico C - ECLC  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 00:07
English to Italian
+ ...
There is a worse trend Apr 28, 2018

The one when project managers in bigger companies increasingly rely on "smart tools" to do QA checks and enforce standards. This is resulting in subpar quality. I have customers pushing "Mandatory terminology" that is inherently wrong and they still insist in pushing it because "customer wants it" and "QA checks report an error that must be corrected" (regardless of the fact what the QA and the Customer want is really wrong, without relativism allowed: Example. cubic inches "cu.in" translated in... See more
The one when project managers in bigger companies increasingly rely on "smart tools" to do QA checks and enforce standards. This is resulting in subpar quality. I have customers pushing "Mandatory terminology" that is inherently wrong and they still insist in pushing it because "customer wants it" and "QA checks report an error that must be corrected" (regardless of the fact what the QA and the Customer want is really wrong, without relativism allowed: Example. cubic inches "cu.in" translated into Italian as "cu.pollici"). This is getting crazy.

As to the software, i agree. I have been trying to get rid of one and adopt another and the customers stick with an old inefficient platform that is literally making me waste a lot of money and time and i can't handle that anymore. I really need to fully transition to another platform.
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Christine Andersen
 
Ty Kendall
Ty Kendall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 16:07
Hebrew to English
The customer is always right....except when they're not Apr 28, 2018

Kay-Viktor Stegemann wrote:

The customer is always right. The agency is my customer. When the agency wants me to use MemoQ, Trados, Memsource, Across, Transifex, Crowdin, MotionPoint, Qordoba, Smartling, GTT or any obscure or selfmade platform, I will do it, as long as the thing works and does not hamper me in my work, and as long the agency pays me a professional rate. It's their call. I just need to know the basics, like how to confirm a segment, how to copy source to target, how to do a concordance search or insert tags, and some other keyboard shortcuts, and then I'm all set.

Do you still use the same tools that you used ten or twenty years ago? I don't. You have to be prepared to learn something new every other day, this is particularly true for a translator.


I think we should be wary about applying this phrase (coined in 1909 by the founder of Selfridge's) to translation.
It's a useful mind-set when dealing with retail (where it belongs) and employees (which we are not) , but usually it's a really unhelpful mantra in translation.

[Edited at 2018-04-28 05:02 GMT]


Christine Andersen
Gabriele Demuth
 
Hans Lenting
Hans Lenting
Netherlands
Member (2006)
German to Dutch
Hourly rate Apr 28, 2018

Whenever a client asks me to use another tool than my preferred one, I quote an hourly rate. In 90 % of the cases, they then agree with me using my own tool. They are quite flexible, actually.

 
José Henrique Lamensdorf
José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 13:07
English to Portuguese
+ ...
In memoriam
Watch out! Apr 28, 2018

I keep a very effective time management system in place. I had never delivered a translation job late. I prefer to deliver two days early than two hours late.

I use my own WordFast Classic. For me, its #1 advantage is preserving text format while translating MS Word files which, for anyone who has ever used PageMaker or InDesign, is often an uphill battle. I don't work for agencies demanding Trados absolutely to give me the time of day. Now and then one requires me to buy some other
... See more
I keep a very effective time management system in place. I had never delivered a translation job late. I prefer to deliver two days early than two hours late.

I use my own WordFast Classic. For me, its #1 advantage is preserving text format while translating MS Word files which, for anyone who has ever used PageMaker or InDesign, is often an uphill battle. I don't work for agencies demanding Trados absolutely to give me the time of day. Now and then one requires me to buy some other CAT tool, which I decline.

However I have no objection whatsoever to use a client-provided portable CAT tool license for the duration of their project. So far, I have done it with MemoQ, Passolo, and Memsource.

The MemoQ projects went great. As 15-20 carefully selected translators, scattered everywhere, were working on those same humongous projects, I accepted 20% lower rates overall, since I was expected to unquestionably use all matches our whole team was feeding in real time to the TM. Post-translation QA would - and did - even out inconsistencies. The agency was located in Florida. At first, their server was in Toronto, later moved to Los Angeles, however lightning-fast all the time.

Last year, an agency located in the UK proposed me a similar setup, their Memsource server being located somewhere in Europe. I tried it on a weekend, and it worked the same as in the previous MemoQ case. However Monday morning, when I began actually working on that assignment, it took each segment 8 seconds to cross the Atlantic! It was the first - and only one so far - job I delivered late, actually 2½ hours after the deadline. They accepted my explanation immediately, and didn't complain. Now I work offline for them, always.

So I'd suggest any translator working online on a client's server-based CAT tool to be very careful about possible variations in Internet speed upon committing to a specific turnaround time.
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Katalin Szilárd
Katalin Szilárd  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 17:07
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Resignation Apr 28, 2018

Daniel Frisano wrote:

Somebody please name another profession in which the client dictates which tools the provider should use. I can't think of any.


Hi Daniel,

This is because in most professions people work mainly for end clients.
The other reason: many translators don't understand business, don't look into the future and they have a kind of "resigned" attitude.
And this deficiency is taken advantage of.
That's why many agencies feel that they can dictate.

Like medical writers most of them work for end clients. But in translation there is a group of agencies that want to hinder freelancers to work for end clients at whatever cost. I'm not talking about the translation agencies that are fair to translators, pay really decent rates and they have fair and ethical business practices both towards translators and to their clients. They understand that the market is huge and everybody has its own roles.
The problem is that giants want everything and so they feel they can dictate the trends in translation industry.

But this whole thing depends on us: translators.

Bests,
Katalin


 
José Henrique Lamensdorf
José Henrique Lamensdorf  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 13:07
English to Portuguese
+ ...
In memoriam
I wrote about this today! Apr 28, 2018

Katalin Szilárd wrote:

[But in translation there is a group of agencies that want to hinder freelancers to work for end clients at whatever cost. I'm not talking about the translation agencies that are fair to translators, pay really decent rates and they have fair and ethical business practices both towards translators and to their clients. They understand that the market is huge and everybody has its own roles.
The problem is that giants want everything and so they feel they can dictate the trends in translation industry.

But this whole thing depends on us: translators.


See https://www.proz.com/forum/business_issues/324904-attempt_to_turn_the_translator_agency_business_upside_up_im_partnering_with_translation_agencies.html#2724271


 
Enrico C - ECLC
Enrico C - ECLC  Identity Verified
Taiwan
Local time: 00:07
English to Italian
+ ...
Not always so Apr 30, 2018

Kay-Viktor Stegemann wrote:

The customer is always right. The agency is my customer. When the agency wants me to use MemoQ, Trados, Memsource, Across, Transifex, Crowdin, MotionPoint, Qordoba, Smartling, GTT or any obscure or selfmade platform, I will do it, as long as the thing works and does not hamper me in my work, and as long the agency pays me a professional rate. It's their call. I just need to know the basics, like how to confirm a segment, how to copy source to target, how to do a concordance search or insert tags, and some other keyboard shortcuts, and then I'm all set.

Do you still use the same tools that you used ten or twenty years ago? I don't. You have to be prepared to learn something new every other day, this is particularly true for a translator.


In principle, all what you say is correct. In practice, a number of mandatory platforms are suboptimal. This would require a much broader discussion than just what type of CAT one uses (like for example the fact that calculating rates solely on wordcounts without considering the complexity of the fact that your repetitions or 100% matches are not good and you need to still act on them in some way (even to just fix plurals/singulars, gender concordances etc.). But some platforms (some of which very widespread) are really becoming a problem to use. I have daily cases of CATs that have become more of a problem than an asset to work with, requiring permanent maintenance, multiple times a day, to the point that your work becomes that of an IT freelancer rather than that of a translator.
Some companies are developing proprietary platforms where translators become users and guineapigs. Again, i have direct experience of some cloud platforms considered as "mandatory" by customers that caused me hand cramps and eye strain due to subpar UIs/controls, with the customer insisting to use it despite the huge waste of time and how they affect your health.

Personally, my patience stops at any platform i find comfortable to use. My flexibility can't get as far as compromising my health or bottom line (since some platforms are definitely subpar, requiring much more time than another platform would allow for to complete a job).

I work with a number of them. I give up on all those that, after a short test, fail to meet my requirements. And my requirements are simple.
- They must not require more time than it would take to complete the job with my standard platforms.
- They must have comfortable to use controls and UIs.


Barbara Sickor
 
Roman Herrle
Roman Herrle
Local time: 00:07
English to German
+ ...
As long as you do not have to pay for them Apr 30, 2018

As long as they are not asking you to use a special tool at your own expenses, but a tool, that they provide for you, where is the problem? Then, there are the better ones, and those that are less, but, they are all getting better and starting to leave their dependency on the English language, which at least for most Indo-European languages was their weakest point, as English for structure is closer to Chinese (restricted verb forms, no gender, and number for adjectives, etc.) than to the other ... See more
As long as they are not asking you to use a special tool at your own expenses, but a tool, that they provide for you, where is the problem? Then, there are the better ones, and those that are less, but, they are all getting better and starting to leave their dependency on the English language, which at least for most Indo-European languages was their weakest point, as English for structure is closer to Chinese (restricted verb forms, no gender, and number for adjectives, etc.) than to the other Indo-European languages. Bob sang it already 40 years ago: the times they are a-changingCollapse


 
Hans Lenting
Hans Lenting
Netherlands
Member (2006)
German to Dutch
Turnaround time Apr 30, 2018

José Henrique Lamensdorf wrote:

So I'd suggest any translator working online on a client's server-based CAT tool to be very careful about possible variations in Internet speed upon committing to a specific turnaround time.


Committing to a specific turnaround time is like committing to a fixed price based on the number of source words. You'll only know the number of hours that you needed to do the translation in the 'exotic' client's CAT tool, once you have finished the translation. So no turnaround time for me: I'll count the number of hours afterwards.

Most of the times, an XLIFF file will come available for offline translation.


 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 17:07
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
Have some sympathy with the poor client Apr 30, 2018

Alison High wrote:
I'm increasingly getting jobs for which agencies specify I need to an online version of their preferred CAT tool i.e. use their tool or don't get the job.


You're looking at this the wrong way. The poor client has his source text stuck inside this online tool and he needs to have it translated. He can't get the text out, but he's hoping you can put the translation in without the need to take out the source text first. Or, if you are skilled enough to take out the source text yourself and put in the translation, that would also make his day.

The decision to use the online tool is often out of the client's hands. Have some sympathy with the poor client.


 
mona elshazly
mona elshazly  Identity Verified
Egypt
Local time: 18:07
Member (2016)
Italian to Arabic
+ ...
There is a problem in such matter Apr 30, 2018

Personally, I prefer to use cat tools and I cannot describe my happiness when I receive an editable document even if the client does not ask for using them, and I cannot describe my anger when I receive a pdf document; the feeling that I have do divide my screen into two parts is very irritating for me and once I committed a major mistake in the target document; I forgot to scroll down to the end of the target document so I inserted paragraphs in wrong places; had it not been for revision, it wo... See more
Personally, I prefer to use cat tools and I cannot describe my happiness when I receive an editable document even if the client does not ask for using them, and I cannot describe my anger when I receive a pdf document; the feeling that I have do divide my screen into two parts is very irritating for me and once I committed a major mistake in the target document; I forgot to scroll down to the end of the target document so I inserted paragraphs in wrong places; had it not been for revision, it would have been a disaster.

But I fear to some extent online cat tools; how can I guarantee that my memory won't be used in an unauthorized way?, even if I made it private.
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Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Kay-Viktor Stegemann
Germany
Local time: 17:07
English to German
In memoriam
The tool does not matter when the price is right Apr 30, 2018

Enrico C - ECLC wrote:

Kay-Viktor Stegemann wrote:

The customer is always right. The agency is my customer. When the agency wants me to use MemoQ, Trados, Memsource, Across, Transifex, Crowdin, MotionPoint, Qordoba, Smartling, GTT or any obscure or selfmade platform, I will do it, as long as the thing works and does not hamper me in my work, and as long the agency pays me a professional rate. It's their call. I just need to know the basics, like how to confirm a segment, how to copy source to target, how to do a concordance search or insert tags, and some other keyboard shortcuts, and then I'm all set. ...


...
I work with a number of them. I give up on all those that, after a short test, fail to meet my requirements. And my requirements are simple.
- They must not require more time than it would take to complete the job with my standard platforms.
- They must have comfortable to use controls and UIs.


Einrico, you made some good points. I have condensed this part to the phrase "... and does not hamper me in my work ...". There is no doubt that the quality and user-friendliness (or translator-friendliness) of these CATs and platforms vary very much. Most online platforms rely very much on mouse usage, which is very disruptive for fast typing. I do complain to agencies and developers of these platforms when they do not offer useful keyboard shortcuts for every routine action.

But what I wanted to express is that there is nothing wrong with the agency (my client) directing me to use a certain tool. For me, it boils down to the hourly rate I can earn when doing the job, and as long this is satisfactory, the tool does not matter.

Daniel Frisano wrote:
Somebody please name another profession in which the client dictates which tools the provider should use. I can't think of any.


I think there is a very fitting analogy: consulting. I have worked as a consultant for small and medium enterprises at the beginning of my career. And it is the same there: when you work for a client, you have to work with what is there, the software and the accounting system and the planning spreadsheets the client uses. Of course you will bring some of your own tools as well, and will make suggestions about improvements on the client's side, but simply stating you cannot work with your client's tools will not work.


 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Oh yes it does Apr 30, 2018

Kay-Viktor Stegemann wrote:
The tool does not matter when the price is right


I disagree.

I can't imagine any customer paying me to learn a new tool.

I also have no desire to learn a new tool.

Just saying!

[Edited at 2018-04-30 10:26 GMT]


Christine Andersen
 
SusieSmith
SusieSmith
United Kingdom
I'm willing to try Apr 30, 2018

I am always happy to give the agency's CAT tool a try, but they usually slow me down, so I decline jobs where they are required.

I am constantly logged out of online CAT tools - internet problems on my side, but there's nothing I can do about it.
The environments are slightly 'foreign' to me, slowing me down slightly. I do not have my own glossaries, TMs etc. so it's like starting from scratch.
They usually have some functions disabled, or set up in some strange way.
... See more
I am always happy to give the agency's CAT tool a try, but they usually slow me down, so I decline jobs where they are required.

I am constantly logged out of online CAT tools - internet problems on my side, but there's nothing I can do about it.
The environments are slightly 'foreign' to me, slowing me down slightly. I do not have my own glossaries, TMs etc. so it's like starting from scratch.
They usually have some functions disabled, or set up in some strange way.
The often lag and are generally slow, which drives me up the wall.
Tags are often a big pain.

Fortunately most of the agencies I work with are flexible and technologically competent enough to understand how to exchange files between different CAT tools.

At the end of the day, WE are the ones who have to sit there hour after hour using this software. Why should we have to use frustrating programs just because the agency fell for some salesman's pitch about easier project management?
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Christine Andersen
 
Fiona Grace Peterson
Fiona Grace Peterson  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 17:07
Italian to English
Hit. Nail. Head. Apr 30, 2018

Chris S wrote:

I can't imagine any customer paying me to learn a new tool.



Precisely. If my customer wants to pay me my usual hourly rate to learn a new tool, I'm all for it! But they never do, strangely enough...

Chris S wrote:

I also have no desire to learn a new tool.



It may be that the skills I learn using a new tool (that my customer paid me to learn to use) are transferable. But that's doubtful.

I tend to view these requests in the same way as I do the relationship between the amount of hoops an agency wants me to jump through to work for them, and the work I end up getting from them... usually it's inversely proportional...


Christine Andersen
 
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