Enlighten me on rates and the marketplace please
Thread poster: EHANLI
EHANLI
EHANLI
Local time: 15:34
English to Turkish
Nov 26, 2020

Dear translation professionals,

I am trying to go back to being a translator after a decade of other jobs. I've contacted several local agencies and found their rates horrible (around €0.006). Then figured out, it's the age of the internet, I can probably work for a decent multi-language LSP overseas. I found one that looks legit. Took all the steps to register and when it came to declaring my preferred rates, I was warned that €0.8/wd is too high and I should aim for something
... See more
Dear translation professionals,

I am trying to go back to being a translator after a decade of other jobs. I've contacted several local agencies and found their rates horrible (around €0.006). Then figured out, it's the age of the internet, I can probably work for a decent multi-language LSP overseas. I found one that looks legit. Took all the steps to register and when it came to declaring my preferred rates, I was warned that €0.8/wd is too high and I should aim for something around €0.035 to get work. €0.035 is actually a great number for me considering the current conditions I'm in but I still kept my rates at €0.8 to avoid undercutting others on the platform. In the meantime, I heard from some friends that they get work from such LSPs every once in a blue moon but local work is their bread and butter.

To gain a different perspective, I checked out most of the forum threads on rates to understand the industry standards better but ended up being more confused than ever. I read threads about MT and MTPE rates, threads by beginners asking for insight and saw all the heated discussions going on about lowering rates. I also checked out the chart of average rates on https://search.proz.com/employers/rates and honestly, found it too good to be true for some of the language pairs.

Apparently there are some established high level professionals who work with decent clients and charge premium rates for their quality work and then there is the dark side of the sector where every agency is a sweatshop and every translator is a bottom feeder (not my words, no offense). Although preaching that good work will attract good clients and good pay is the default reaction to such an assertion, it doesn't reflect the reality and it is far from providing any useful insight when the market is so saturated. I have always provided excellent work but don't see a market where it would be appreciated for what it is.

Let me be more precise:

Turkish Lira (TRY): €0.11 , $0.13 (26 November 2020)

In Turkey, where the majority of translators working in my language pair reside, minimum wage is around 2400TL monthly (around €255 net). If you assume a 160 hour month, the hourly minimum wage is about €1.5 (net). Many in house translators work for minimum wage or a number slightly higher than that. Let's say you're super experienced and qualified and you actually find an agency where they need a super qualified and experienced person and offer you twice that amount. What you'll get is €3 hourly/€510 monthly.

So how am I supposed to charge over €20 hourly or €0.08/wd when the market is dictating one tenth of those numbers?

In a scenario where I average 2000 words a day 22 days a month I make:

1- €240 working for local agencies with the local standard rates.
2- €3520 working for the unicorn LSP that has been desperately searching for me and is super happy that I finally surfaced after a decade long sabbatical.
3- €1540 if I accept the so called bottom feeder rates of the European LSP I'm registered at.

The first option barely pays my rent. The second puts my income above the sum of 10 in-house translators' working at regular local agencies. The third provides me with enough funds to live carefree. The first is what I am forced to take if I want to get going (horrible horrible pay/sustainable). The second is impossible. The third is also not possible because of the low chances of getting work that'll equal to 2000 words/day from the aforementioned European LSP (better pay, not sustainable).

Although I'm trying to establish myself from scratch, I am not a newbie, nor am I ignorant enough to think undercutting is OK. I have seen this destroy the live music scene in the 90's and early 2000's. A seven piece band would cost the venue 2100 but the owner could pack the house by getting a DJ for 300 (or someone with an I-pod for 100). Or some newcomers would play for free or peanuts to get some exposure. Now the industry is finished. In any sector where people are undercutting both quality and wages will suffer eventually. But this will happen to every single line of work where there's no union or an equivalent regulatory authority. Individuals will be forced to accept lower wages as competition gets hotter and how long they can resist is trivial at the end of the day. Where there is no union/regulation, sweatshop mentality will dominate eventually. Capitalism 101. This is even more pronounced in the 3rd world countries with failing economies.

So tell me please, what am I missing? I want to be able to call those agencies offering 0.006/wd scam artists and ignore them. I want to be able to tell newcomers not to be bottom feeders and charge honest rates. I don't even think €0.1 is fair for a really good translation. And I am confident my work is worth much more than that. But when there is no demand, how are people supposed to stick to their guns?

I'm not writing to provoke violent back and forth among strongly opinionated members. I'm hoping to harvest some insight from the collective wisdom of the proz.com community which might actually help rather than hurt people.

Thank you.

[Edited at 2020-11-26 20:13 GMT]
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Elena Van de Saar
 
Sadek_A
Sadek_A  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:34
English to Arabic
+ ...
..... Nov 26, 2020

A)
In 2020, the national minimum wage in Turkey REMAINED fixed at 440.3 € per month, that is 5284 euros per year, taking into account 12 payments per year.
https://countryeconomy.com/national-minimum-wage/turkey

B)
Why does the first option barely pay your rent, when it's very close to the national minimum wage?
If others are actually successf
... See more
A)
In 2020, the national minimum wage in Turkey REMAINED fixed at 440.3 € per month, that is 5284 euros per year, taking into account 12 payments per year.
https://countryeconomy.com/national-minimum-wage/turkey

B)
Why does the first option barely pay your rent, when it's very close to the national minimum wage?
If others are actually successful at surviving on it, then maybe you need to downgrade your accommodation accordingly.

C)
QUALITY supply is NOT abundant, despite what is being deliberately rumored by some. Many companies are DYING to find qualified translators/interpreters/other language professionals. A tycoon company, with its own translation product, has "box office" translated as "PO Box" across the web, which makes me personally sad and whoever translator did that should be held accountable.
Companies are just stubborn, and are being fed the mis-info that language professionals don't deserve/need much money; so, they cheapen, and when they fail to convince the human professional, they ultimately resort to MT.
What should the language professional do? Whatever he/she wants, except for submission; get a different job, start a project, retire, etc.
When we all hold out, a different reality will come into play.
And, remember, new suppliers get into the market only after seeing/hearing from prosperous veterans. If there are prosperous veterans no more (which is happening right now), the message will automatically get to all the newcomers, and at some point the market will collapse by utter and complete lack of qualified HR.

D)
Good luck.

[Edited at 2020-11-26 21:20 GMT]
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Matthias Brombach
Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 13:34
Member (2007)
Dutch to German
+ ...
deleted Nov 26, 2020



[Bearbeitet am 2020-11-27 07:02 GMT]


 
Joakim Braun
Joakim Braun  Identity Verified
Sweden
Local time: 13:34
German to Swedish
+ ...
Fields Nov 26, 2020

You should try to enter the fields with higher rates (specialized finance, medical, legal, some technical).
Stuff that few people can do well. Where quality really matters because end customers would blow their top at MTPE-type deliveries.

Also there are high-quality, honest agencies with a collegial attitude and OK rates (which of course requires end customers - and translators! - with the same attitude). These are NOT easy to find. But usually they last for a long time. Thr
... See more
You should try to enter the fields with higher rates (specialized finance, medical, legal, some technical).
Stuff that few people can do well. Where quality really matters because end customers would blow their top at MTPE-type deliveries.

Also there are high-quality, honest agencies with a collegial attitude and OK rates (which of course requires end customers - and translators! - with the same attitude). These are NOT easy to find. But usually they last for a long time. Three or four of these in your portfolio will help a great deal.

Get some qualifications that put you among the select few (sworn translator is good).

Get some other part-time job, maybe for a long time.

Over the years I've edited a lot of material, and maybe 75% of the translations are not very good. I've seen two or three translators in 20 years capable of error-free, idiomatic, highest-quality financial translation. The really good agencies want those translators. Good work is definitely not a guarantee of success, but if you're very good and keep going, at some point you'll come across one of these agencies.

If all I was offered was MTPE or bottom feeder rates from "your best rate" agencies, I'd try hard to get out of the business. Get a welder's certificate or do manual labor or something.

Starting out is terrible.

[Bearbeitet am 2020-11-27 08:08 GMT]
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EHANLI
EHANLI
Local time: 15:34
English to Turkish
TOPIC STARTER
I was referring to that bit in my post. Nov 26, 2020

Matthias Brombach wrote:

... being a bit more ambitious in research may help:

https://search.proz.com/employers/rates?source_lang=eng&target_lang=tur&disc_spec_id=��cy=eur&submit=Submit



I actually was discussing the community averages listed on that page. Even put the link to the chart in my post. One of my main points was that the entries were far from realistic for some language pairs, including Eng-Tr. I'm sorry if my post was too long to read.


Matthias Brombach
 
mariemiguel0
mariemiguel0
United States
Thank you for this reminder Nov 27, 2020

Thank you for this reminder

 
EHANLI
EHANLI
Local time: 15:34
English to Turkish
TOPIC STARTER
Does floating exchange rate ring a bell? Nov 27, 2020

@Sadek_A

Sadek_A wrote:

A)
In 2020, the national minimum wage in Turkey REMAINED fixed at 440.3 € per month, that is 5284 euros per year, taking into account 12 payments per year.
https://countryeconomy.com/national-minimum-wage/turkey


How can the national minimum wage in Turkey (where the currency is Turkish Lira) REMAIN fixed at XXX.X Eur per month when the exchange rate is floating? The author of the page you referred to didn't even bother to state the date on the article. Those numbers are history now. The net minimum wage is 2324TL monthly which is 248.83 € today. If you want to talk in gross numbers, then it's 2943TL / 315€.



B)
Why does the first option barely pay your rent, when it's very close to the national minimum wage?
If others are actually successful at surviving on it, then maybe you need to downgrade your accommodation accordingly.


I don't know. Maybe ask that question to government officials? I know I'm not the reason why purchasing power is so low in Turkey. I'll let my family know your opinion if there's ever a discussion of downgrading our accommodation in the future. Thanks for the input.



C)
QUALITY supply is NOT abundant, despite what is being deliberately rumored by some. Many companies are DYING to find qualified translators/interpreters/other language professionals. A tycoon company, with its own translation product, has "box office" translated as "PO Box" across the web, which makes me personally sad and whoever translator did that should be held accountable.
Companies are just stubborn, and are being fed the mis-info that language professionals don't deserve/need much money; so, they cheapen, and when they fail to convince the human professional, they ultimately resort to MT.
What should the language professional do? Whatever he/she wants, except for submission; get a different job, start a project, retire, etc.
When we all hold out, a different reality will come into play.
And, remember, new suppliers get into the market only after seeing/hearing from prosperous veterans. If there are prosperous veterans no more (which is happening right now), the message will automatically get to all the newcomers, and at some point the market will collapse by utter and complete lack of qualified HR.

D)
Good luck.

[Edited at 2020-11-26 21:20 GMT]


I agree quality is not abundant. But nobody is dying to find qualified translators/interpreters/other language professionals. Sounds nice though. When companies post jobs online they get to choose from a large group of applicants. I have yet to see or hear about a company failing to find a qualified applicant in this line of work. We're not the holy grail. In nicer words, the number of quality LSPs isn't big enough to drain the pool.

Thank you.


 
EHANLI
EHANLI
Local time: 15:34
English to Turkish
TOPIC STARTER
There's the paradox Nov 27, 2020

@Joakim Braun

I am actually a sworn translator. Anyone with a 4 year university degree and a language test result can go to a notary office and become a sworn translator here. Only good for quick and cheap official document work.


Joakim Braun wrote:

Get some other part-time job, maybe for a long time.

Over the years I've edited a lot of material, and maybe 75% of the translations are not very good. I've seen two or three translators in 20 years capable of error-free, idiomatic, highest-quality financial translation. The really good agencies want those translators. Good work is definitely not a guarantee of success, but if you're very good and keep going, at some point you'll come across one of these agencies.

If all I was offered was MTPE or bottom feeder rates from "your best rate" agencies, I'd try hard to get out of the business. Get a welder's certificate or do manual labor or something.

Starting out is terrible.

[Bearbeitet am 2020-11-27 08:08 GMT]


I also believe that if I am very good and keep going, at one point I'll come across good agencies.

The paradox is, I'm supposed to be a very good translator and keep going, specialize in higher paying fields and build a list of reputable references while working as a welder/doing manual labor because I should say no to low pay translation work which is pretty much the only work I can find until I'm a decorated veteran.

I agree, starting out is terrible.

By the way, I checked out your website. Very impressive work...

Thank you.


 
Sadek_A
Sadek_A  Identity Verified
Local time: 16:34
English to Arabic
+ ...
..... Nov 27, 2020

First of all, I replied to you with logic, in an attempt to help. You're not paying me, and I could've easily let you remain stuck with your post and no replies, or with replies that make fun of you like the one regarding the proz rate search, to which you surprisingly? replied politely!

You're now repaying me by being aggressive.

Floating exchange rate? Low purchasing power? Not enough quality LSPs, as per your claim? Are these topics for me to solve? I don't come to y
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First of all, I replied to you with logic, in an attempt to help. You're not paying me, and I could've easily let you remain stuck with your post and no replies, or with replies that make fun of you like the one regarding the proz rate search, to which you surprisingly? replied politely!

You're now repaying me by being aggressive.

Floating exchange rate? Low purchasing power? Not enough quality LSPs, as per your claim? Are these topics for me to solve? I don't come to you with my problems for you to solve them for me!

If you're indeed Turkish, and indeed in Turkey (which I highly doubt, given your use of an expression such as "holy grail", your attitude towards government officials, and your unverified, untraceable account), then you will need to seek the relevant solutions where you live. No one here will be able to help you with those!

BTW, downgrading accommodation or even a whole lifestyle is something I, and others, have done when there is necessity. When income gets lower than before, the person -any person- needs to downgrade or risk being seen as banging their head against the wall. But, who says that someone will force you into it? You either do it voluntarily or don't do it at all, totally your choice!
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Peter Shortall
Peter Shortall  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Romanian to English
+ ...
Networking Nov 28, 2020

I don't think there's anything I can add about rates per se, as they are a matter of negotiation and I know nothing about the ENG-TUR market anyway, but there is a point I'd like to make about one way in which you can stand out from the crowd in the market and - hopefully - access some of those clients who are willing to pay higher rates.

You say you're looking to get back into the profession. Bleak though Joakim's description of the translation market might seem, I actually think h
... See more
I don't think there's anything I can add about rates per se, as they are a matter of negotiation and I know nothing about the ENG-TUR market anyway, but there is a point I'd like to make about one way in which you can stand out from the crowd in the market and - hopefully - access some of those clients who are willing to pay higher rates.

You say you're looking to get back into the profession. Bleak though Joakim's description of the translation market might seem, I actually think his analysis is spot on. But as he points out, amid the sea of predators in a market saturated with ever greedier middlemen, there *are* some companies out there that appreciate experience and well-written translations and will pay more for them. And no, that's not a default reaction, it's my personal experience, even in this of all years. And there are direct clients too, although as I say, unfortunately I don't know anything about your language pair so I can't advise you on how to find those. But if you ever get in touch with any, you can emphasise the point that they can save money by hiring a freelancer directly. That's a message that should resonate with businesses that are looking to cut costs, and heaven knows there are plenty of those in the world right now. Rather than undercutting other translators, why not undercut agencies? Especially the more parasitic ones that contribute little and just suck money out of the profession.

I was very surprised to read in your profile that you are not a native speaker of English, as your written English is of an extraordinarily high standard. I very much doubt there will be many native speakers of Turkish who can produce written English of this quality. And you don't even say that you offer TUR-ENG translations, only ENG-TUR! Even if you don't translate into English, your excellent knowledge of it is a big asset and should give you a big edge over other translators at the top end of the TUR market. But as you point out yourself, getting established - or re-established in your case - is very difficult, especially in the current market. So how can you find your way to the top?

If I were you, I would focus on your strong point and go all out in marketing it heavily - not just to agencies and (if possible) direct clients, but also to fellow translators who can recommend you to them. As Joakim has pointed out, good agencies want to find the best translators, and it's important to remember that the reverse is true too - good translators want to find the best agencies. So do you. Quality attracts quality. So if you can find some of the best translators in your language pair - through websites for translators like ProZ, or through social media, or wherever - and if they get to see how good you are, then they will be in a position to recommend you to the companies/organisations they know for work that they can't take on themselves, because they're too busy or they don't work in the relevant specialism. That's the strategy I would adopt if I were you. Cast your net in two directions, not just one - towards agencies/direct clients on the one hand, and towards other translators on the other hand. In a way, you have started doing the latter already just by finding your way here and starting this thread. I have noticed you, and if someone asked me if I know any good Turkish linguists I can recommend, I would now suggest they try contacting you (and may I add that I don't recommend just anyone - that's a compliment!) So even networking with professionals who work with other languages can help to raise your profile. The more actively you network with other translators, the more you will be noticed and recommended.

Some questions for you: how long have you been trying to get back into the profession? What have you done so far? Who have you been in touch with, and roughly how many people (translators and translation buyers) have you contacted? Do you know which subject fields are most in demand for Turkish, and do you offer them? If you offer specialisms for which there is little demand, are you able and willing to gain expertise in other fields that translation buyers demand?

To get back to my point about finding good translators who could point you towards good clients, one way of identifying good translators is checking out the KudoZ section of this website, I don't know whether you have done that already. I participated in that for many years and found it extremely useful, not only for improving my terminological and research skills but also as a means of identifying who is good, and who specialises in what field. I don't know of any other specific places on the Web where you could look for Turkish translators and get to see how skilled they are, but maybe you already do, or maybe some other ProZians could help you with that. Do you know if there is a Turkish translators' association? Have you tried talking to Turkish linguists based in countries where higher rates tend to be paid for translations?

Although I agree that the profession is being squeezed hard (not least by MT) and I don't see that changing any time soon, that is not a new trend and I certainly don't think it's all doom and gloom, at least not just yet. Despite everything that has happened this year, I have confounded my own expectations by remaining quite busy, after a few quiet weeks in March-April. Demand is still there, it's just a case of finding out where it is. And as I have said above, other translators may be able to guide you towards the top end of the market. I actually tend to agree with you that producing good work is not enough on its own. You can and should take a more proactive approach, and you can do that by networking with other professionals.

As for what you do in the meantime until you can get to where you want to be in the translation world... I can't come up with an answer to that one, I'm afraid. I suppose a lot of people around the world are doing whatever it takes to get by right now. All I can say is, I think you're talented and I hope you will find an outlet for your talent, it would be a shame if it went to waste. If there is a solution to be found out there (and I underline "if"), then surely the way to find it is getting in touch with people and getting yourself noticed. Good luck!
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Michele Fauble
Ana Cuesta
Christel Zipfel
Katya Kesten
Fabrice Ndie
 
EHANLI
EHANLI
Local time: 15:34
English to Turkish
TOPIC STARTER
Sorry, I was quite busy doing work for peanuts. Dec 4, 2020

Please excuse me for my late reply.

Judging from the view count of this thread and the arguments presented so far, I am assuming my concern regarding the rates of some language pairs being intrinsically cheaper than others due to their local economies is legitimate.

One would expect the ratio of good quality to bad quality work (or translators) in any language pair to be pretty much the same. But the median rates are drastically different due to local marketplace dynam
... See more
Please excuse me for my late reply.

Judging from the view count of this thread and the arguments presented so far, I am assuming my concern regarding the rates of some language pairs being intrinsically cheaper than others due to their local economies is legitimate.

One would expect the ratio of good quality to bad quality work (or translators) in any language pair to be pretty much the same. But the median rates are drastically different due to local marketplace dynamics.

So, please think twice before you call honest and decent professionals bottom feeders for charging what seems like slavery rates from your perspective. It might be their only option regardless of the quality of their work. It might even make a good living in some places.

@Peter Shortall

Thank you for your encouraging words. I appreciate the different perspective. If you don't mind, I would like to answer your questions regarding my personal efforts via private message to keep this thread focused on rates and marketplace dynamics.
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Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Target the right market Dec 4, 2020

I think the short answer to your problem is to look for clients in wealthy English-speaking countries.

I similarly benefit from working with clients in Scandinavia where the cost of living is much higher than in the UK.


Mervyn Henderson (X)
EHANLI
 
EHANLI
EHANLI
Local time: 15:34
English to Turkish
TOPIC STARTER
I believe it's the only way out. Dec 4, 2020

Chris S wrote:

I think the short answer to your problem is to look for clients in wealthy English-speaking countries.

I similarly benefit from working with clients in Scandinavia where the cost of living is much higher than in the UK.



My goal is exactly that. In the meantime I'll keep working for local agencies though. In this context, I admit I'm quite envious of your language pairs. Relocating to a Scandinavian country is among our short to mid-term goals. So I might one day get good enough to translate from one of those languages.


 
Robert Rietvelt
Robert Rietvelt  Identity Verified
Local time: 13:34
Member (2006)
Spanish to Dutch
+ ...
@Ehanli Dec 4, 2020

EHANLI wrote:

Dear translation professionals,

I am trying to go back to being a translator after a decade of other jobs. I've contacted several local agencies and found their rates horrible (around €0.006). Then figured out, it's the age of the internet, I can probably work for a decent multi-language LSP overseas. I found one that looks legit. Took all the steps to register and when it came to declaring my preferred rates, I was warned that €0.8/wd is too high and I should aim for something around €0.035 to get work. €0.035 is actually a great number for me considering the current conditions I'm in but I still kept my rates at €0.8 to avoid undercutting others on the platform. In the meantime, I heard from some friends that they get work from such LSPs every once in a blue moon but local work is their bread and butter.

To gain a different perspective, I checked out most of the forum threads on rates to understand the industry standards better but ended up being more confused than ever. I read threads about MT and MTPE rates, threads by beginners asking for insight and saw all the heated discussions going on about lowering rates. I also checked out the chart of average rates on https://search.proz.com/employers/rates and honestly, found it too good to be true for some of the language pairs.

Apparently there are some established high level professionals who work with decent clients and charge premium rates for their quality work and then there is the dark side of the sector where every agency is a sweatshop and every translator is a bottom feeder (not my words, no offense). Although preaching that good work will attract good clients and good pay is the default reaction to such an assertion, it doesn't reflect the reality and it is far from providing any useful insight when the market is so saturated. I have always provided excellent work but don't see a market where it would be appreciated for what it is.

Let me be more precise:

Turkish Lira (TRY): €0.11 , $0.13 (26 November 2020)

In Turkey, where the majority of translators working in my language pair reside, minimum wage is around 2400TL monthly (around €255 net). If you assume a 160 hour month, the hourly minimum wage is about €1.5 (net). Many in house translators work for minimum wage or a number slightly higher than that. Let's say you're super experienced and qualified and you actually find an agency where they need a super qualified and experienced person and offer you twice that amount. What you'll get is €3 hourly/€510 monthly.

So how am I supposed to charge over €20 hourly or €0.08/wd when the market is dictating one tenth of those numbers?

In a scenario where I average 2000 words a day 22 days a month I make:

1- €240 working for local agencies with the local standard rates.
2- €3520 working for the unicorn LSP that has been desperately searching for me and is super happy that I finally surfaced after a decade long sabbatical.
3- €1540 if I accept the so called bottom feeder rates of the European LSP I'm registered at.

The first option barely pays my rent. The second puts my income above the sum of 10 in-house translators' working at regular local agencies. The third provides me with enough funds to live carefree. The first is what I am forced to take if I want to get going (horrible horrible pay/sustainable). The second is impossible. The third is also not possible because of the low chances of getting work that'll equal to 2000 words/day from the aforementioned European LSP (better pay, not sustainable).

Although I'm trying to establish myself from scratch, I am not a newbie, nor am I ignorant enough to think undercutting is OK. I have seen this destroy the live music scene in the 90's and early 2000's. A seven piece band would cost the venue 2100 but the owner could pack the house by getting a DJ for 300 (or someone with an I-pod for 100). Or some newcomers would play for free or peanuts to get some exposure. Now the industry is finished. In any sector where people are undercutting both quality and wages will suffer eventually. But this will happen to every single line of work where there's no union or an equivalent regulatory authority. Individuals will be forced to accept lower wages as competition gets hotter and how long they can resist is trivial at the end of the day. Where there is no union/regulation, sweatshop mentality will dominate eventually. Capitalism 101. This is even more pronounced in the 3rd world countries with failing economies.

So tell me please, what am I missing? I want to be able to call those agencies offering 0.006/wd scam artists and ignore them. I want to be able to tell newcomers not to be bottom feeders and charge honest rates. I don't even think €0.1 is fair for a really good translation. And I am confident my work is worth much more than that. But when there is no demand, how are people supposed to stick to their guns?

I'm not writing to provoke violent back and forth among strongly opinionated members. I'm hoping to harvest some insight from the collective wisdom of the proz.com community which might actually help rather than hurt people.

Thank you.

[Edited at 2020-11-26 20:13 GMT]


The truth is that (our) rates are a joke. Most of us are (highly) educated people whose expertise is not recognized, hence the silly rates we have to deal with.

To keep a long story short, in Holland we have a saying "wat de gek ervoor geeft". Literally translated it says: "whatever the fool wants to pay for it" (I am sure there is an official english translation for it, but ....). And remember, the pool the agencies are fishing in is well filled. If you don't accept the job, there is always somebody else who does. And quality? Who cares, as long as it sells.

Sorry mate, that is our reality, but please keep on fighting!

[Edited at 2020-12-04 23:21 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-12-04 23:22 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-12-05 11:12 GMT]

[Edited at 2020-12-05 16:08 GMT]


EHANLI
Jorge Payan
 


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Enlighten me on rates and the marketplace please







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