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¡Finally here! WWA rating for translators
Thread poster: Álvaro Espantaleón Moreno
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:46
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Wanting Oct 18, 2017

Chris S wrote:

.... threatening to leave (again) and not doing so (again)...



That's only because at the moment there's nowhere better. But there will be.


 
Matthias Brombach
Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 18:46
Member (2007)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Proz, c´est moi? Oct 18, 2017

Henry Dotterer wrote:
As for the negative comments here in this thread by the same old folks, for those who don't know them, let me say that there are certain people at ProZ.com who have threatened to leave over this or that dozens of times over the years, but somehow never do. People are not leaving ProZ.com in "droves";


Ludwig_XIV


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:46
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Dieu et mon droit Oct 18, 2017

ha ha Matthias Brombach - perfect !

 
Álvaro Espantaleón Moreno
Álvaro Espantaleón Moreno  Identity Verified
Spain
Local time: 18:46
Member (2015)
English to Spanish
TOPIC STARTER
Agree Oct 18, 2017

Georgie Scott wrote:

That's the issue for me: who has the most power. In this industry, agencies have far, far more power than freelancers (power in numbers, financial power, perceived power of "legitimacy", power in volume). A quick look back over the history of the world shows that power is very frequently abused and used to manipulate and dominate those with less power. Hence the reactions from "the same old folk", whose opinions might just reflect the opinions of at least the same proportion of site users who "lurk" but don't post.

Proz has its own power. Over the last year, lots of translators have said to me - in response to me advocating Proz membership - "I don't like the site and don't think recent changes have added any real value but I don't know if I can afford not to have membership when my competitors do."

The Blue Board gives freelancers a little more power. Negative WWA ratings hand this power and more back to agencies. Hence the scepticism.

Perhaps it will be a good thing but having seen how Airbnb ratings work and the damage that one unjustified "average" rating can do, I have my doubts. There is a huge amount of content voicing the same concerns over 1-5 star ratings in other industries.

And the MAJOR difference between Blue Board and WWA ratings is that Blue Board ratings are used by service providers (freelancers) to manage risk and not by CLIENTS researching quality and experience, whereas WWA ratings ARE used by potential clients to research quality and experience. Of course, this could be an argument in favour of 1-5 ratings but it goes against the logic that just because you can have negative Blue Board ratings it should follow that negative freelancer ratings should be allowed.


Henry's move makes commercial sense and he is entitled to grow and make more money. If this initiative is implemented (I hope not) agencies will build a WWA rating database for free. Then, when this database is strong and mature, it will only be offered to translation agencies that pay a fee. It makes sense. It will be advertised as "screened professionals who provide 100% customer satisfaction". Or maybe I'm thinking too fast... Or maybe I'm not... because Henry says they will also offer Secure Payments (or something similar), which means payments channeled through Proz.com, who won't be doing this for free but for a commission. This means Proz.com receives the money from the agency, keeps it in escrow and only sends it to the translator when the agency approves the translation. So all the pieces come together: all translators use Trados, they receive positive ratings if complying with "industry standards" (low rates, repetitions are not paid, 24 hours deadlines are a normal thing, editing+proofreading for free, DTP for free, etc.) and everyone works through Proz, who becomes a marketplace.

This is what I see coming, and I think it's wrong. Translators can be ranked, ok, but based on Kudoz, degrees, samples and exams. If you want to improve ranks, why don't you offer rigorous exams (ATA style)? Or give a better rank to people holding certifications or who have won translation contests. Make then agencies pay to check that rank (why not?). Or maybe you could launch a new site for this venture. Something called Translatorsadvisor or similar. It would make more sense.


 
Matthias Brombach
Matthias Brombach  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 18:46
Member (2007)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Take a look at this, Zuckerberg: Oct 18, 2017

Álvaro Espantaleón wrote:

If this initiative is implemented (I hope not) agencies will build a WWA rating database for free. Then, when this database is strong and mature, it will only be offered to translation agencies that pay a fee. It makes sense. It will be advertised as "screened professionals who provide 100% customer satisfaction". Or maybe I'm thinking too fast... Or maybe I'm not... because Henry says they will also offer Secure Payments (or something similar), which means payments channeled through Proz.com, who won't be doing this for free but for a commission. This means Proz.com receives the money from the agency, keeps it in escrow and only sends it to the translator when the agency approves the translation. So all the pieces come together: all translators use Trados, they receive positive ratings if complying with "industry standards" (low rates, repetitions are not paid, 24 hours deadlines are a normal thing, editing+proofreading for free, DTP for free, etc.) and everyone works through Proz, who becomes a marketplace.


Or you should sell your idea to Google and make profit from it, but perhaps it´s already pending?

[Edited at 2017-10-18 08:44 GMT]


 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 18:46
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Tom Oct 18, 2017

Tom in London wrote:
The only meaningful way to rank translators is by quality.


No, I disagree with this. Translators ought to be ranked by client satisfaction. But I understand that such a ranking system would threaten grouches (I'm not calling you one) because it would deprive them of victims.


 
Samuel Murray
Samuel Murray  Identity Verified
Netherlands
Local time: 18:46
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
@Álvaro Oct 18, 2017

Álvaro Espantaleón wrote:
If this initiative is implemented, agencies will build a WWA rating database for free. Then, when this database is strong and mature, it will only be offered to translation agencies that pay a fee.


No, that is not a well-thought through idea. A similar logic could have been applied to the Blue Board, but the Blue Board is still accessible to all.

And the reason why your idea would not work is the same as well: the number of translators who would be willing to pay money for a list of vetted agencies is too low for such a venture to be profitable, and the same will apply to agencies.

Agencies consulting the translator-WWAs will have to take the same care that we currently do when we use the Blue Board, i.e. read it with a pinch of salt. Too few agencies will be willing to pay for such a list of translators. A translator Blue Board would have most commercial value if access to it is free or no more than the cost of membership.


[Edited at 2017-10-18 08:52 GMT]


 
Lincoln Hui
Lincoln Hui  Identity Verified
Hong Kong
Local time: 01:46
Member
Chinese to English
+ ...
Not a good idea Oct 18, 2017

The Blue Board is not a rating tool, it's a risk-management one.

You'll have to make agency rankings free game as well if you want to go there. And as far as I'm concerned, the expanded Blue Board has, as I expected, become less useful.

More to the point, though, is that this "proposal" (pronounced "duhn deel"?) seems to be meeting far more skepticism and opposition than previous ones, and to dismiss it callously shows a great deal of tone deafness.


 
Alistair Gainey
Alistair Gainey  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:46
Russian to English
A question Oct 18, 2017

At present, the only way WWA entries affect rankings in the directory of translators is if the user selects "at least one positive entry". Is that going to change?

[Edited thanks to Jenny and Angie's corrections below - thanks, both of you; my mistake.]

[Edited at 2017-10-18 12:08 GMT]

[Edited at 2017-10-18 12:11 GMT]


 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Took the words right out of my mouth Oct 18, 2017

Samuel Murray wrote:
Tom in London wrote:
The only meaningful way to rank translators is by quality.

No, I disagree with this. Translators ought to be ranked by client satisfaction.


I was just going to say that. Controversial, maybe, but true.

Not only will crap agencies give crap translators high scores for crap translations, but weak translators will allow themselves to be exploited by agencies in a bid to get high scores, thus lowering both quality standards and rates in a vicious double-whammy. (See, I did read the earlier posts, Angie.) As a result, the world is about to end.

Or will it?


 
Katalin Szilárd
Katalin Szilárd  Identity Verified
Hungary
Local time: 18:46
English to Hungarian
+ ...
Exactly Oct 18, 2017

Lincoln Hui wrote:

The Blue Board is not a rating tool, it's a risk-management one.


 
Tom in London
Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:46
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Not the world Oct 18, 2017

Chris S wrote:

.... the world is about to end.

Or will it?


Not the world, but the Proz monopoly will. At present the visible competitors are laughably poor; but don't expect that to last. When Proz has some serious competition it will straighten itself out.

[Edited at 2017-10-18 09:15 GMT]


 
Daniel Frisano
Daniel Frisano  Identity Verified
Italy
Local time: 18:46
Member (2008)
English to Italian
+ ...
Make it optional + benchmark tests Oct 18, 2017

Allow each member to choose to be rated or not, showing a message like "This professional (or pseudo-professional) chose not be rated".

And/or include a voluntary 500-word test, to be rated, in several fields (technical, legal, etc.). Perhaps agencies will stop once and for all with free tests and refer to such "institutional" tests.

I would certainly be happy if there was a way to finally expose frauds who have gotten away for years with horrible messes, and I have see
... See more
Allow each member to choose to be rated or not, showing a message like "This professional (or pseudo-professional) chose not be rated".

And/or include a voluntary 500-word test, to be rated, in several fields (technical, legal, etc.). Perhaps agencies will stop once and for all with free tests and refer to such "institutional" tests.

I would certainly be happy if there was a way to finally expose frauds who have gotten away for years with horrible messes, and I have seen a few.
Collapse


 
Jennifer Forbes
Jennifer Forbes  Identity Verified
Local time: 17:46
French to English
+ ...
In memoriam
I've never requested a WWA Oct 18, 2017

Alistair Gainey wrote:

1. At present, WWA entries are only made if the translator requests them. Will that continue to be the case, or will clients be able to decide to make them themselves?

2. At present, the only way WWA entries affect rankings in the directory of translators is if the user selects "at least one positive entry". Is that going to change?


It's not true that WWA entries are made only if the translator requests them. I have several WWAs from clients but have NEVER requested such an entry - I'd be so mortified if anyone refused ...
They must have made their entries spontaneously.


 
Axelle H.
Axelle H.  Identity Verified
France
Local time: 18:46
English to French
+1 Oct 18, 2017

Katalin Szilárd wrote:

Lincoln Hui wrote:

The Blue Board is not a rating tool, it's a risk-management one.


 
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